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I'm asking this in comparison with Javascript and jQuery. I was able to learn jQuery with only a basic understanding of Javascript (but I am continually learning Javascript while using jQuery).

Is it the same for PHP and its frameworks? Can I start to dive into a framework with only a basic knowledge of PHP (and then learn PHP (as it is) along the way)? Or do I need to have an in-depth knowledge of PHP before starting with frameworks?

catandmouse
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  • This might not be a real question but "Yes" learning methodology you adopted to learn javascript through jQuery is also applicable to MVC Frameworks to PHP. – Imran Naqvi Oct 11 '11 at 18:41

9 Answers9

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NO.

Your learning curve may be a little steeper, but you can start learning PHP frameworks without extensive knowledge of PHP. With every programming language, knowing the syntax is not enough, you need to work with the language to be proficient with it.

Every framework has it's own way of working in it and it is different then working without framework. Choose the framework which suits you better. Be sure that the framework has good documentation and community support so you can ask for help if you get stuck with something that you don't understand / know.

Christian P
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  • "Do you need to have a very good knowledge of PHP" - shouldnt your answer be NO then?^^ – mark Oct 11 '11 at 12:38
  • good catch :) "Can I start to dive into a framework with only the basic knowledge of PHP" threw me off the right answer. – Christian P Oct 11 '11 at 12:57
  • well - there are opposite questions in the text that you are not that wrong in your answer :) – mark Oct 11 '11 at 15:35
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I would actually recommend you stop toiling around in plain PHP and just get a framework. I a TON of questions from people asking "how do I connect to mysql", "How do I upload a file to PHP"...

The whole time I keep thinking, if you used a framework, you wouldn't need to ask, as most support active queries which don't even require knowledge of SQL to get going, you do things like pseudo SQL, it creates the connection (troubleshooting/debug) for your requests.

Personally I use codeigniter (superb documentation, small footprint, and easy to use). So you can take a look at that, it supports sparks which makes it even easier to get plugins.

Jakub
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  • A common scenario if a developer diving into frameworks without learning first the language behind it, "Hello everyone, I need help with Laravel Login, Registration and Authentication. Could anyone teach me how to create your own Login and Registration without following the built in login tutorial in Laracast. Thank you." –  Oct 15 '17 at 09:35
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I think the best about some PHP frameworks is that you can learn a lot about "best practices" as you use them, including:

  • OO design patterns (most notably MVC)
  • the DRY principle
  • unit testing
  • Good code style
  • ...

This has been the case for the two frameworks I've worked with, Zend Framework and Symfony. But I already had some previous experience with "plain PHP", so maybe I was already a bit biased.

dinopmi
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Have a look at agiletoolkit, the php framework with jquery (aka atk4). It an MVC framework that is nicely integrated with jquery and ajax and lets you focus on the web application rather than php to begin with - then later, as you get to know php better, it wont hold you back or stop you from using php to do more.

Trevor North
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I use symfony - i learnt PHP and symfony at the same time - symfony has excellent documentation - so i would say that if you pick the right framework you can learn both together .... a basic knowledge of development / programming is an advantage ....

Manse
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Yes that should indeed be possible.

The frameworks vary in how you do things, just like jQuery contra MooTools in JS.

Coming from PHP frameworks, I started with ASP.NET MVC framework, instead of the normal plain webforms, and that stills makes more sense to me than webforms.

Zend is in my opinion a little harder to understand, but you get some GREAT tools to work with. CakePHP is pretty straightforward, like CodeIgniter and Kohana.

Marco Johannesen
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In my opinion frameworks work on MVC pattern. So you need to have good OOP skills rather than any syntax skill. If you are having very good knowledge of OOP, then you can easily convert of any framework. I started to use Zend Framework only after 1 month of starting my PHP. So in my opinion you don't need to have very good knowledge of PHP, you need to have very good knowledge of OOP. You just need to have basic knowledge of PHP even to start Framework

Awais Qarni
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no, you can dive right into it.

I use cakePHP and it is probably the framework where you can see results the fastest. lots of things are already done for you. other frameworks have less "automatic" but can still be useful.

mark
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I am programming in CakePHP. I have never been developing in PHP, so I just started to learn the basics. After a week of learning PHP to know just the basics I got into cake, and now I have no problems with developing anything my boss asks me to.

Piotr Chabros
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