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I found this anecdote in Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! by Richard Feynman. In the passage below, Feynman describes his attempts to analyze his dreams

I also noticed that as you go to sleep the ideas continue, but they become less and less logically interconnected. You don't notice that they're not logically connected until you ask yourself, "What made me think of that?" and you try to work your way back, and often you can't remember what the hell did make you think of that! So you get every illusion of logical connection, but the actual fact is that the thoughts become more and more cockeyed until they're completely disjointed, and beyond that, you fall asleep.

In the following paragraphs, he continues..

....I kept practicing this watching myself as I went to sleep. One night, while I was having a dream, I realized I was observing myself in the dream. I had gotten all the way down, into the sleep itself!

Is this possible? Can you observe yourself in a dream?

Further

I discovered that I could turn around, and walk back through the train ­­ I could control the direction of my dream. I get back to the car with the special window, and I see three old guys playing violins ­­ but they turned back into girls! So I could modify the direction of my dream, but not perfectly.

I have heard of this phenomenon called Lucid Dreaming before but I have never heard that you can learn to voluntarily observe your dreams with some practice. Can someone clarify? Thanks.

Sklivvz
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Green Noob
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    Is there a difference between "Lucid Dreaming" and "observing your dreams"? It is interesting to note that Feynman's investigation of Lucid Dreaming was motivated by his own skepticism of this exact claim. Feynman's description makes me rather confident that it is true - to the extent that the example goes a long way toward answering the question (although it is still worthy of further treatment on this site). – David LeBauer Mar 27 '12 at 02:37
  • @David Yes, my wording was inappropriate. What I intended to convey was whether it is possible for us to voluntarily do what Feynman did? Is there an established procedure? – Green Noob Mar 27 '12 at 03:03
  • I would start with the method that he used - watching himself go to sleep 2x/day. It took him about four weeks. This is described on [p 46 _ff_](http://books.google.com/books?id=7papZR4oVssC&lpg=PP1&dq=feynman%20surely%20you're%20joking&pg=PA45#v=onepage&q&f=false) of his book. – David LeBauer Mar 27 '12 at 03:10
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    If your questions is "How do I lucid dream?" it is waaay out of scope. If your question is "Is the concept of lucid dreaming true?" we have a tricky falsification issue - how would anyone prove it? What evidence would you accept, if you won't accept the written anecdote of a Nobel Prize winning physicist? (and I wouldn't accept all the stories in that book as being the whole truth...) – Oddthinking Mar 27 '12 at 05:05
  • @Oddthinking Yes, that is what I'm looking for- "Is the concept of lucid dreaming true?" :) – Green Noob Mar 27 '12 at 05:21
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    @Oddthinking Well, it's been proven by having the dreamer to induce specific eye movement patterns after they've reached lucidity during dreaming. Sounds pretty solid to me. – Ilari Kajaste Mar 27 '12 at 05:43
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    @IlariKajaste: Can you provide the reference--- I read this also, but too long ago. I was interested in this, having lucid dreamed for a while. – Ron Maimon Mar 27 '12 at 06:56
  • @RonMaimon Well, that's why it was a comment, not an answer. ;) I can probably dig up the reference later, though. I recall it being referecenced in one of the conversations in Susan Blackmore's book "Conversations on Consciousness" which is in my bookshelf. – Ilari Kajaste Mar 27 '12 at 07:07
  • I just had a detailed answer, including how-to, what you can do, and the REM business (mentioned, I didn't remember the source) deleted! This is unacceptable. – Ron Maimon Mar 27 '12 at 08:15
  • @IlariKajaste: That's a pretty cool experiment, and neatly deals with my objection. Look forward to seeing it in an answer. – Oddthinking Mar 27 '12 at 08:51
  • @RonMaimon: Flag it to have another mod look at it, take it to meta to have the community consider it. For the record: It was presumably deleted as it consisted of an impressive 11 paragraphs of anecdote, and one vague unreferenced description of the same experiment that Ilari chose to post as a comment because of a lack of reference. – Oddthinking Mar 27 '12 at 08:55
  • @Ron Did your answer have references? Sorry, the standards here are a bit higher than usual. That's why this place works. It's not malice. – Ilari Kajaste Mar 27 '12 at 13:52
  • @RonMaimon There you go, I added and answer with the reference I have. – Ilari Kajaste Mar 27 '12 at 14:48
  • @ron references are absolutely non optional here--if you disagree you are likely on the wrong site. :-( – Sklivvz Mar 27 '12 at 17:15
  • Please read: http://meta.skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/welcome-to-new-users – Sklivvz Mar 27 '12 at 17:16
  • @RonMaimon Maybe you misunderstand what references mean. However, this sort of meta discussion is more suited to [chat](http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/3987481#3987481), let's continue there. – Ilari Kajaste Mar 27 '12 at 17:24
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    __Related:__: [Is it possible to induce a lucid dream?](http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/2322/is-it-possible-to-induce-a-lucid-dream) – Oliver_C Mar 27 '12 at 22:25
  • I'm not sure what the skeptical angle here is. I take for granted that everybody experiences, as I do, some dreams that seem like a movie where you can't control the action (except possibly for your own responses) and are generally not aware at the time that it's a dream, and other dreams in which you are completely aware that it's a dream and able to totally control the plot, if you know what I mean. Do you mean "is there an objective, externally-measurable difference in the brains of people dreaming lucidly from those who are having other dreams?" – Larry Gritz Mar 29 '12 at 17:58
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    @LarryGritz No, not everyone has dreams where they are aware it's a dream and can control it. And no, not everyone is able to induce such a dream when they want (at least without learning the correct techniques). For example, so far, I've never had such a lucid dream - only *one* sort-of lucid, where I dreamed I was in virtual reality and had control over the environment. It would in fact be quite interesting to have numbers on how prevalent naturally occurring ludic dreaming is. – Ilari Kajaste Apr 14 '12 at 19:14

1 Answers1

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In Conversations on Consciousness by Susan Blackmore (ISBN 978-0-19-280623-9), on page 140, Stephen LaBerge references a study he did to provide evidence of lucid dreaming. He knew that observed eye movement in REM state did sometimes correspond with reported subjective gaze direction in regular dreams. He'd also already mastered techniques to become lucid in a dream, but evidence of these was completely subjective. He then designed an experiment to get solid evidence of the phenomenon:

I thought that in a lucid dream I could look to the left and right, left and right, and thus make a unique and easily identifiable signal.

They could then monitor the dream in laboratory conditions, and gather data on lucid dreams. It worked. He says the signal-verified lucid dreams were almost without exception in phasic REM sleep mode.

The study was reportedly hard to get published, but was eventually published in Perceptual and Motor Skills. The following might be a reference to the study in question (found from the book's general references on lucid dreaming):

Gackenbach, J. and LaBerge, S., Conscious Mind, Sleeping Brain (New York: Plenum, 1986)

Using known techniques for gaining lucidity during dreaming, they succesfully performed different types of these signal-confirmed lucid dreaming experiments with other test subjects as well. They've for example found out that during lucid dreaming, time flows at same rate than in waking.

Oh, and by the way he draws some very interesting (and admittedly very speculative) conclusions about the nature of consciousness based on these observations. Read the book for more. :)

Conclusion: Having performed repeatable experiments in laboratory coditions, where subjects were measured to be in a dream state (phasic REM) but were able to perform externally observed signals that correspond with their reported lucid state, I would conclude this confirms lucid dreaming as a real phenomenon that can be learnt to be induced by certain techniques.

(It should be noted, though, that the direct reference I've used for this information is a book that consists of edited records of conversations where the book's editor is the other party of the conversation in question, not the one providing the information. Feel free to edit to provide more direct references.)

Ilari Kajaste
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