Is there any place where you need one form of ID to buy a gun, but two to pay for it by check?

Question

This XKCD comic strip has the following alt text:

I hear in some places, you need one form of ID to buy a gun, but two to pay for it by check. It's interesting who has what incentives to care about what mistakes.

Is there really any place like that?

it's a punchline, not a claim. XKCD is notable, the claim is not. — Sklivvz, Nov 01 '11 at 21:55
California law only talks about 1 ID. IINAL so I can't tell if the wording specifically prohibits requiring 2 forms of ID. https://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs15-mt.htm#2c — user5341, Nov 02 '11 at 00:58
The way I read it, the author of the comic IS claiming this is true, and it will certainly be read by many people. I think it passes notability. — Oddthinking, Nov 02 '11 at 02:55
The thing is that the number of IDs needed to pay with a check is *entirely* in the gift of the vendor unless and until the state steps in (in the case of Oddthinking's California link to *prevent* the vender from asking for two). Indeed the fact that a state found that a reasonable thing to do suggests that a non-trivial number of retail outlets *do* want more than one form of ID for a check. Finding one that also sells guns is left as an exercise. — dmckee --- ex-moderator kitten, Nov 02 '11 at 22:50
Do people still use checks in America? I've thought it's all credit/debit cards by now — JonathanReez, Jan 13 '17 at 12:26

score 10 · Accepted Answer · edited Apr 13 '17 at 12:46

10

It may be laborious, but the only way to disprove this is to list the 50 states (I assumed this is limited in scope to the USA.) and show that in none of them is it true.

Help me out. Pick one, research and edit.

Of course, during this exercise, we may find that there is a place where it IS true. Either way, question answered.

States marked with a * are full participants in NICS, and require FBI approval for purchases. The official form Firearms Transaction Record Part I Over-the-Counter requires a "valid government-issued photo identification" (such as driver's licences) with the current address OR a "valid government-issued photo identification" with a second piece of identification showing the current address. The relevant sections of the form are 20a and 20b. If cheques require more than that in any of those states, we have a winner.

Alabama *
Alaska *
Arizona *
Arkansas *
California - No. Can only demand one id for check - via @DVK
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware *
Florida
Georgia *
Hawaii
Idaho - May fit the criteria. Need to find a merchant that sells firearms and requires two ID's to pay by check.
- "There is no state permit required for the purchase of any rifle, shotgun, or handgun." idaho.gov The number of ID required to purchase a gun is dependent on other sources' requirements (e.g. ATF).
- The issue of paying by check seems left entirely to the merchant accepting the check as payment. Idaho law seems to not address the issue. Laws regarding merchant acceptance of checks revolve only around what information is stored, not shows of ID.
Illinois - Requires a Firearm Owner's ID to purchase a firearm, and application for this apparently only requires a single ID (driver's license OR state-issued ID)
Indiana *
Iowa
Kansas * - Appears to have no specific requirements for ID for gun purchase. The only restriction is against selling guns to minors, so presumably a gun store clerk may check an ID to verify age, but there is no requirement to check 2 IDs.
Kentucky *
Louisiana *
Maine *
Maryland *
Massachusetts - No. Can only demand one id for check
Michigan - This might fit the criteria of the claim; additional research necessary
- Requires at most a single state-issued ID to obtain a firearm license (p. 9 of PDF--28.422(3)(c)), and a firearm license isn't even necessary for certain types of firearms.
- It is unclear whether a gun store clerk may request the firearm license in addition to another form of ID at time of purchase.
- Seems to have no law limiting the number of IDs used for check acceptance, only which information can be recorded from the IDs.
Minnesota *
Mississippi *
Missouri *
Montana *
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Jersey
New Mexico *
New York *
North Carolina
North Dakota *
Ohio *
Oklahoma *
Oregon
Pennsylvania - Only one form of ID is required to purchase a handgun. For "long guns" (rifles, shotguns, etc.) sold in a private transaction, neither ID nor a license is required. It is still unclear whether the seller can require two forms of ID for a check. Via @ESultanik
Rhode Island *
South Carolina *
South Dakota *
Tennessee
Texas *
Utah
Vermont *
Virginia - No. Two IDs required for gun
Washington
West Virginia *
Wisconsin
Wyoming *
Washington DC *

edited Apr 13 '17 at 12:46

Community

1

answered Nov 02 '11 at 03:05

Oddthinking

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Other than the CA reference... can anyone even point one in the right direction in terms of where to look? My google-fu is coming up empty handed for MN. Should we be looking in state legislature, some type of business regulation documents, or something else? – Hendy Nov 02 '11 at 03:35
as gun purchase procedures are seemingly identical or close to in most states, you should start looking at the differences between states in the requirements to issue personal checks in payment (and not necessarily for guns), which may differ between locale and even bank and acceptant. Of course those will need to require more different IDs than just the gun purchase, else the IDs needed for that can double to identify the buyer for the purpose of validating the check. – jwenting Nov 02 '11 at 08:01
@jwenting, Yes, for the states with a *, the focus is now on how much id is requested for a check. Some (possibly all? To be seen.) of the states, it seems, have privacy laws that protect people from being asked for too much ID. Asking for one id (e.g. gun license) for the purchase and another (e.g. driver's license) for the check counts, I think, as one each. – Oddthinking Nov 02 '11 at 08:06
yes, but then you'd have to find as well that law in those states requires that an ID used for one purpose in a transaction can not be also used for another purpose in the same transaction (iow it must be illegal to use the ID presented for the gun registration form for the purpose of validating the check, I highly doubt such laws are on the book anywhere). – jwenting Nov 02 '11 at 08:16
In researching, it is apparant that many states require a state-issued firearm permit/license of some sort. In such states, purchasing a firearm likely only requires showing said permit, regardless of whether additional forms of ID were required to obtain the permit. This may render the original claim technically true, but also rather misleading. – Flimzy Nov 02 '11 at 08:56
I fond a comment [here](http://www.explainxkcd.com/2011/10/28/the-important-field/#comment-16154) stating that kentucky could be a winner. Someone could verify that? – DavRob60 Nov 02 '11 at 12:43
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Isn't this approach flawed, in that selling guns is regulated and the vendor is required to ask for ID, but accepting cheques is not regulated and it's more of a corporate policy about how much ID is required to pay by cheque? I.E. this depends on the individual stores in any state/jurisdiction that requires only one form of ID to buy a gun – Mr. Shiny and New 安宇 Nov 02 '11 at 13:16
@Flimzy: Presumably the requirement for two forms of ID is to make stealing, forging or obtaining sufficient ID through fraud more difficult. The effort to *legally obtain* the original ID isn't relevant in the first two cases. – Oddthinking Nov 02 '11 at 13:22
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@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇: Agreed. This approach only works if every state forbids asking for two forms of ID for checks, which may not be the case, in which case this answer will be inconclusive. The counter case would be to find just one shop with a policy of selling guns with one piece of ID for a cash sale and two forms for check sales. – Oddthinking Nov 02 '11 at 13:25
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇: Many states _do_ regulate that you cannot ask for more than a single ID when accepting a check, as the answer points out. When this isn't mandated, though, you are right, it often is left up to the policy of the individual stores. – Flimzy Nov 02 '11 at 15:25
@Oddtinking I'd like to disagree with your counting "as one each". The claim can be read as one to buy a firearm and another to pay by cheque. Since the claim made in the comic only states that two IDs are required to pay by cheque when buying a firearm. Nothing's said about buying something else... – Nicktar Nov 02 '11 at 16:50
@Nicktar, interesting. I am trying to read the sentence with your interpretation. You are saying that if I demand a photo-ID with an address for all check purchases AND a gun license (which I assume does NOT have an address - I have never seen one) for all gun purchases, that would satisfy the criteria? That's not an interesting claim :-( – Oddthinking Nov 02 '11 at 22:37
@Oddthinking When I need an ID to by a firearm (hopefully) and another one to pay by cheque that makes one to by a firearm and two to pay for it by cheque... Ruins the effect but I think it'd satisfy the original claim, sorry. – Nicktar Nov 03 '11 at 10:40
Let's take this to chat. – Oddthinking Nov 03 '11 at 12:18
Another thought comes to mind: Most people only have one photo ID, the second "ID" they would present would be a credit card. Someone who has a credit card is less likely to bounce a check than someone who doesn't. Thus such a policy could be reasonable even if the first ID was beyond question. – Loren Pechtel Jan 11 '17 at 21:20
I don't know if stores still do this, but I've seen some stores which would issue their own credentials for regular customers who wished to use checks. If a store that had such a policy also happened to sell firearms, buying a gun with cash would require a government-issued ID, but buying one wish a check would require both a government ID and the store-issued credential. – supercat May 28 '20 at 04:03

score 6 · Answer 2 · answered Jan 13 '17 at 02:45

As explained in It's Getting Harder to Cash a Check Kiplinger's Personal Finance Vol. 27, October 1973:

Many places of business require at least two forms of identification and your phone number before cashing or accepting your check in person

This is what the OP claim means by "two to pay for it by check". It is not any government requirement, but many businesses, at a time when it was more common to pay by personal check, had this requirement.

For more recent references see: Lippincott Williams and Wilkins' Administrative Medical Assisting, Volume 1

If a new patient is paying by check, get two forms of identification.

Public Health Leadership and Management: Cases and Context:

Visa, Mastercard, cash, and personal check (with two forms of identification) were accepted.

Is there any place where you need one form of ID to buy a gun, but two to pay for it by check?

2 Answers2