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Joseph Davidovits claims that the word "iisii-r-iar", "ysrỉar" or however you want to transcribe it, that appears on the Merneptah Stele is an Egyptian phrase meaning "those who are exiled for their sins".

Now, this word is usually assumed mean "Israel", and since the pharao says that the Israelites are exiled for their sins in the bible, this sounds just a little bit to good to be true.

What are the basis for his claims? Does he have anything real to base this on?

Lennart Regebro
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    I am confused by your question "What are the basis for his claims?" The original web-site describes how he believes there is an error (which he ascribes to forgery) in the interpretation of one of the symbols as a vulture instead of an owl. He shows photographs to support his interpretation. I am not saying he is right - I cannot interpret it myself and have found no scholarly analysis - but doesn't that answer this question? – Oddthinking Oct 27 '11 at 12:34
  • `pharao says that the Israelites are exiled for their sins in the bible` - do you have citation? And why would it be `to good to be true.`? Good for whom and why? – user unknown Oct 27 '11 at 15:59
  • @Oddthinking: No, that article contains the claim, but he makes no attempt to prove it, the article is about something different. – Lennart Regebro Oct 27 '11 at 17:18
  • @userunknown: Sorry, my bad, it is *god* who says so. Ezekiel 39:23. – Lennart Regebro Oct 27 '11 at 17:20
  • Ahh, I think I understand. The real claim is contained in his book. – Oddthinking Oct 27 '11 at 18:02
  • I agree with Oddthinking. The link is pretty clear how he arrived at the claim. If you were asking "Is there any published material which disputes the finding" (hint hint), I would have considered it a valid question - as it is, IMHO it's not in scope of Skeptics. BTW, did you read the full list of arguments about translation in the Wiki you linked to? – user5341 Oct 27 '11 at 18:22
  • @DVK: I can't see that he says anything about how he arrived at this, he says "Pharaohs Ramsès II and Merneptah used this sentence when talking about the exiled Akhenaton’s followers, forced to quit Egypt" but I can't find any support for this, just this guys website. Once again the article is not concerned with the word "Israel". I just linked to it because he makes the claim in that article. The wikipedia article makes no mention of the theory I ask about. – Lennart Regebro Oct 27 '11 at 18:28
  • @Lennart - OK, then I'm misunderstanding the question I think. I read it as whether the claim that hieroglyph was forged to change its meaning is true. – user5341 Oct 27 '11 at 18:57
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    The stele inscription is in a language that is the direct ancestor to Coptic; *Israel* is Hebrew (a Semitic language). The two languages are both Afro-Asiatic, but they're related about as closely as, say, Italian and Icelandic (both Indo-European). Sometimes things that sound sort of the same merely sound sort of the same -- it doesn't mean they're cognates -- and this pair barely meets the "sort of the same" criterion. – Stan Rogers Oct 28 '11 at 04:52
  • Rephrasing the question makes it better but off topic. I copied it over to the new history.SE instead. – Lennart Regebro Oct 28 '11 at 06:59
  • From the little that I know from speaking Hebrew, and learning Jewish History the name Israel (Meaning "persevere with God" in Hebrew) was given to Jacob before the Hebrews even got to Egypt (source: The Bible, not sure exactly where, but it's easy to find yourself), but as much as this is as clear as daylight to me, I need to find more sources. But any Egyptian interpretation of the name Israel is not the original probably, and more of a "Backronym" – Eran Medan Nov 02 '12 at 23:53
  • As far as I know all Biblical names (Old Testament) that end with "-el" mean "something of/by God". Daniel (God is my judge), Samuel (name of God), Michael (who is like God?), Ishmael (God has harkened), Gabriel (God is my strength), Israel (triumphant with God), etc. – CJ Dennis Jan 16 '16 at 03:20
  • Yeah, but this question is about the Egyptian phrase "iisii-r-iar", "ysrỉar" or however you want to transcribe it. – Lennart Regebro Jan 20 '16 at 11:39

1 Answers1

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This is almost an exact duplicate of this sister SE site question: https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/633/what-is-the-basis-for-the-claims-that-israel-mean-exiled-for-their-sins

The answer is similar to what I posted here earlier (got deleted for lack of sources)

But it is basically the same answer:

Israel is the name given to Jacob, and means in Hebrew (my native language):

  • "persevere with God" (1)
  • "striven with God" (2)
  • "Contended with God" - the word שרה in hebrew (3)

The verse:

“Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but [n]Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed.” 29

The footnote:

n. Genesis 32:28 I.e. he who strives with God; or God strives

Sources

(1) Wells, John C. (1990). Longman pronunciation dictionary. Harlow, England: Longman. p. 381. ISBN 0-582-05383-8. entry "Jacob" and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob#cite_note-0

(2) The Bible, Genesis 32 (http://www.biblica.com/bibles/chapter/?verse=Genesis+32&version=nasb#fen-NASB-957n)

(3) http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%94

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Eran Medan
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  • Please do not duplicate your content. – Sklivvz Nov 05 '12 at 08:15
  • What do you mean? I tried to edit and un-delete the post you removed, and the prompt said "this was deleted by a moderator and cannot be undone", please explain – Eran Medan Nov 05 '12 at 08:24
  • Understood. You normally flag the deleted post after the edit and a moderator is going to re-instate it. We would like to avoid duplicate content - normally I would delete this version and undelete the other - however this version (above) has more up votes and thus I'll leave it. – Sklivvz Nov 05 '12 at 08:48