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This sounds completely bogus to me, but the source is reputable:

Scientists at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have found that when just 10 percent of the population holds an unshakable belief, their belief will always be adopted by the majority of the society.

This doesn't sound right: what if two ideas compete, and each has 10% of the population convinced? Also, 10% sounds like a magic "made up" number—while it makes sense then when some sizable part of the population is convinced the rest follows, it's not clear at all why this threshold should be that number (or a fixed share at all).

However, it is a reputable, non peer reviewed source, so it may as well be true.

Is it true that 10% of believers in an idea will always eventually convince the majority of a population?


The link above is a ScienceBlog summary of the actual paper, "Social consensus through the influence of committed minorities", Physical Review E Vol. 84 Issue 1, July 2011.

Suma
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Sklivvz
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    I just read a blog post about this from Steven Novella that gave some criticisms. One thing he did say that this 10% number is for a belief that doesn't have a bunch of people actively opposing it. Here is the post: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/how-dedicated-minorities-become-majorities/ – nalgenegirl Jul 26 '11 at 16:08
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    So what if 90% of the population believes the opposite? – nico Jul 26 '11 at 16:10
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    No time period given? Or any qualifications of "unshakable"? It might be helpful to have more details, if they exist. *Wait* -- as I type this and then skim your link, this was based on *computers simulating social networks*! I'm thinking this is in the unanswerable category -- how will we ever verify that their algorithms for quasi-AI tracks with human behavior/psychology? – Hendy Jul 26 '11 at 16:12
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    Actually whole idea of trend-setting marketing is that you can do it with much less ppl. – vartec Jul 26 '11 at 16:12
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    I personally think that giving a percentage is not the way to go: people get convinced when they hear an idea from multiple unrelated sources (that's how marketing and branding work). So you need to have enough people with the right connections. Maybe that happens when 10% of some kind of population is convinced, but I am certain it depends on *which* 10% we are talking about. – Sklivvz Jul 26 '11 at 16:14
  • @hendy: just look at their paper and see if it supports the article, if it's peer reviewed, if it's reliable, etc... It's an easy question, mere fact checking! – Sklivvz Jul 26 '11 at 16:15
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    btw. it that would be true, wouldn't everyone belong to The Cult of Mac by now? ;-) – vartec Jul 26 '11 at 16:17
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    @hen to be more specific, since the paper looks like it's based on a simulation, I think this will be easily debunked... it's just a gendankenexperiment and not fact. However maybe someone can find the full paper to double check? – Sklivvz Jul 26 '11 at 16:21
  • @Slivvz: didn't realize the paper was available. You have your answer -- hopefully it's acceptable :) – Hendy Jul 26 '11 at 16:54
  • I wonder another question: Does the firmness with which a position is held vary inversely with the strength of its foundations? – Mike Dunlavey Jul 26 '11 at 21:13
  • I believe this works, but only up to the hundredth monkey:) – Monkey Tuesday Jul 27 '11 at 23:48
  • Isn't this the plot of "12 Angry men" (or at least 1 away from it)? – JohnFx Aug 04 '11 at 18:45
  • @JohnFx: in "12 Angry Men" this works, because unanimous decision is required. – vartec Sep 24 '13 at 14:49

1 Answers1

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No, in "real life," this [probably] does not happen

While the paper establishes what it says... it is based on computer simulated social networks and does not track with actual human behavior/psychology.


Answer from full text PDF of the article being discussed, "Social consensus through the influence of committed minorities", Physical Review E Vol. 84 Issue 1, July 2011.


The paper simulates person-to-person interactions in a social "network" by creating a system of nodes governed by something called binary agreement model, summarized by the paper this way:

The evolution of the system in this model takes place through the usual NG dynamics, wherein at each simulation time step a randomly chosen speaker voices a random opinion from his list to a randomly chosen neighbor, designated the listener. If the listener has the spoken opinion in his list, both speaker and listener retain only that opinion, or else the listener adds the spoken opinion to his list (see Table I).

Table 1 from the paper, showing the potential variations between speaker and listener for two opinions, A and B, is shown here:

table 1 showing binary agreement model outcomes

The study did the following to determine how "unshakable opinions" would influence things:

Here, we study the evolution of opinions in the binary agreement model starting from an initial state where all agents adopt a given opinion B, except for a finite fraction p of the total number of agents who are committed agents and have state A. Committed agents, introduced previously in, are defined as nodes that can influence other nodes to alter their state through the usual prescribed rules, but which themselves are immune to influence.

So, in essence, this means that if we have a network of nodes having a distribution of opinions A and B, playing by the rules of the binary agreement model, over time, the majoriby view will win out. But, this study introduced some nodes, say containing belief A, that could influence others, but not be influenced. Rewriting the above table for uninfluencable nodes gives this new variant:

S=speaker
O=opnion spoken
L=listener

| S  | O | L  | Normal Outcome | Outcome faroving A |
|----+---+----+----------------+--------------------|
| A  | A | A  | A-A            | A-A                |
| A  | A | B  | A-AB           | A-AB               |
| A  | A | AB | A-A            | A-A                |
| B  | B | A  | B-AB           | B-A*               |
| B  | B | B  | B-B            | B-B                |
| B  | B | AB | B-B            | B-AB*              |
| AB | A | A  | A-A            | A-A                |
| AB | A | B  | AB-AB          | AB-AB              |
| AB | A | AB | A-A            | A-A                |
| AB | B | A  | AB-AB          | AB-A*              |
| AB | B | B  | B-B            | AB-B*              |
| AB | B | AB | B-B            | AB-AB*             |
|----+---+----+----------------+--------------------|

I've starred those outcomes that are different. What we have with these uninfluenced nodes is that any AB speaker will not drop A when telling opinion B to a B listener; instead tehy will retain A. Any listener containing A alone will not add B to their list when told B by either a B or AB speaker.

In any case, this is surely enough to clarify that these are vastly simple rules carried out in a computer simulation. While I know that appealing to "common sense" and "logic" may be frowned upon, I'm dearly hoping I don't need a source to back up the statement that humans aren't this simple when it comes to adopting one opinion or another during person-to-person interaction.

It's hard to know whether the paper even attempts to say what ScienceBlogs says it does, though. For example, from the ScienceBlogs summary:

Scientists at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have found that when just 10 percent of the population holds an unshakable belief, their belief will always be adopted by the majority of the society.

Note the word "always" -- this doesn't leave room for the type of belief, at least in my own read. Note this from the introduction of the actual paper, though:

The binary agreement model is well suited to understanding how opinions, perceptions, or behaviors of individuals are altered through social interactions specifically in situations where the cost associated with changing one’s opinion is low, such as in the pre-release buzz for a movie, or where changes in state are not deliberate or calculated but unconscious. Furthermore, by its very definition, the binary agreement model may be applicable to situations where agents, while trying to influence others, simultaneously have a desire to reach global consensus.

So, it appears that they were specifically looking at a simulation known to work acceptably for low-cost/low-investment "opinions/perceptions." I was far more interested in the implications for major beliefs such as religion, global warming, vaccines, etc. I'm leaning toward saying that this type of simulation has nothing to do with these types of strongly emotional, personal, family-history-influenced, local-culture, and [even sometimes!] evidence-based beliefs. It seems more suited toward simulations situations where individuals want to make a quick decision that is mostly irrelevant to the grand scheme, and move on.

The rest of the paper is primarily discussing the mathematical results of the simulations, illustrating what percentage of "unconvincable" nodes were required to win the overall group to a particular opinion.


Lastly, if this were true, one could wonder (thanks @vartec) why Macs have not taken over yet (Wiki on Apple market share, stating that they are at that 10% mark), or perhaps more obviously why the US hasn't entirely converted to some form of Christianity since about 78% of Americans are Christian. The most recent Pew Forum survey seems to indicate that non-belief, in the form of atheism/agnosticism, is actually on the rise. See page 24 for a table indicating that among those surveyed, a combined ~0.8% were atheists/agnostics in their youth, compared to ~4.0% when surveyed recently in adulthood.

Hendy
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    So, when 10% of the population believes in X, it will start converting the rest of the population (who believed in Y). So belief in X starts to grow into the population, and at some point Y will become minoritary until it will be shared by 10% of the population and it will then start to grow again... no wait, it doesn't work like this in real life!! – nico Jul 26 '11 at 17:10
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    @nico: Ha - love it! But... if you re-read my answer (maybe it wasn't clear enough), the 10% threshhold is *only* for "unconvinceable nodes." If 10% of an XY population are believers in X and only have one way influencing... the belief trend will go toward unanimous belief in X. The Y's do not have this characteristic, so the outcome is only a one-way street. – Hendy Jul 26 '11 at 17:25
  • sure, mine was just a more or less amusing comment ;) – nico Jul 26 '11 at 18:41
  • @Chad: good point; though whatever threshold causes individuals to claim Christianity vs. non-belief is at 78% currently and those not crossing this threshold, whatever it its, are growing. I guess that's all I'm trying to get at. – Hendy Jul 26 '11 at 19:26
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    @Chad: that's fine; we can just state that far more than 10% *are* in the sets "believe in divinity of Jesus" and "*do* actively worship/attend Church" and then note that this view has not taken over. The [most recent Pew Forum survey](http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report-religious-landscape-study-chapter-2.pdf), chapter 2, has a table on page 24 showing changes in religious belief from childhood to adulthood for *just* atheist/agnostics going from a combined ~0.8% (in youth) to ~4.0% (now). – Hendy Jul 26 '11 at 19:54
  • @Hendy - Everything except for the very last sentence I like and if you change it from non believers to something like instead those actively involved with religion is in decline then I would have no problems at all. But you state as fact that non-belief has doubled by citin a report that lumps in those that believe but are nonreligious to that group. – Chad Jul 26 '11 at 20:05
  • @Chad -- does the recent edit help? – Hendy Jul 26 '11 at 20:31
  • All bester :) (thats like better only bester) – Chad Jul 26 '11 at 20:56
  • @Chad: glad to accommodate and thanks for offering the view -- never would have occurred to me to think of it like that :) – Hendy Jul 26 '11 at 21:05
  • "Scientists at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have found that when just 10 percent of the population holds an unshakable belief, their belief will always be adopted by the majority of the society." Quick thought experiment: Assume this is true. Suppose 10% have an unshakeable belief in X, and 10% have an unshakeable belief in "not X", then, by this statement, BOTH views are always adopted by the majority of the society. This cannot be true. Therefore the initial statement is false (proof by contradiction). – Oddthinking Aug 06 '11 at 10:34
  • @Oddthinking: 1) great point! 2) recall, though, that the experiment used an unshakable belief in X and a *non-unshakable* belidf in ~X and 3) the main point was that it was all done with computers following rules of belief transfer, which I can't see as having any transfer whatever to reality :) – Hendy Aug 06 '11 at 13:16
  • @Hendy, agreed. The simulation was an interesting exercise in mathematical modelling that had no more reference to the real world than the proverbial spherical horses racing in a vacuum. The problem occurs when the journalists (and press releases) make silly extrapolations. I was only illustrating the journalist's summary was false. – Oddthinking Aug 06 '11 at 13:32
  • it all depends on who the 10% are. If they're in charge of the propaganda ministry, and the secret police, and the courts and "reeducation camps", the other 90% will either quickly become believers or at least pretend to be... – jwenting Sep 23 '13 at 17:03
  • It seems to me that a more realistic simulation would need to model "rising skepticism." One might not take a firm stand on the existence of plesiosaurs in Scottish lochs as long as it's a fringe belief, but if it started to become a large minority belief, I would go from "willing to discuss" to "firmly disbelieving." – Larry OBrien Sep 23 '13 at 18:16
  • @jwenting Possibly, however that's why I tried to appeal to "common sense" as well. Politics falls into a possible test case. Let's say ~50% (much greater than the 10% suggested) believes in either party. We know that over many, many years, the situation has not grown extremely lopsided. Also, media channels tend to be one party dominated. People choose to tune into whichever stream boosts their current belief, despite running into the existence of others who are unwavering in the opposite belief. – Hendy Sep 25 '13 at 20:42
  • @LarryOBrien I don't follow. If the percentage of believers *rose*, you would become *more* certain in your *non-belief*? – Hendy Sep 25 '13 at 20:43
  • Hendy: Yes, I think so. Not being a cable-TV talking head, I don't feel compelled to take a stand on every fringe statement: "Bill Gates should be President of the US," say. I don't feel *committed* one way or the other to that belief. But if it were to become a common topic, I'd scrutinize it and ultimately commit one way or the other. And I think people often give more credence to the "pros" of fringe beliefs for various reasons. So it seems to me that as a fringe became mainstream, resistance would increase. – Larry OBrien Sep 25 '13 at 21:07
  • @Larry most people blindly lap up whatever their chosen role models tell them is "Truth", so if you get the right 10% of the population on your side (and they don't even have to be believers in whatever you want them to promote, you can just pay them or convince them they'll get rich and/or powerful as a result and they'll do your bidding) you can convince the masses, certainly enough of them to silence those who are not so easily convinced (a few smear campaigns towards the skeptics work wonders too, especially if those can lead to skeptics risking life and limb, jobs, etc. as a result). – jwenting Sep 26 '13 at 06:11