6

There are reports of federal agents in Portland "grabbing and arresting protesters and detaining them in unmarked vehicles."

In response,

Jann Carson, interim executive director of the ACLU of Oregon, had the following comment

What is happening now in Portland should concern everyone in the United States. Usually when we see people in unmarked cars forcibly grab someone off the street we call it kidnapping. The actions of the militarized federal officers are flat-out unconstitutional and will not go unanswered.

source

Acting Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Mark Morgan addressed this with Neil Cavuto:

When Fox News host Neil Cavuto asked about officers not identifying themselves, Morgan called the allegation a "lie." He also dismissed the concerns over unmarked vehicles, arguing that it's a "standard tactic" for law enforcement.

"Right now, in situations like this, it's standard procedure -- it's a standard tactic for law enforcement officers to use unmarked cars. ... Neil, it's been on your show, where marked vehicles have actually been attacked by criminals, so it just makes sense for the safety of the officers and agents as well as the protesters," he said.

"They go out, they have reasonable suspicion or probable cause that these individuals have committed a federal crime by destroying federal property, or intentionally trying to physically harm a federal agent or officer, and they are going out and they are absolutely trying to apprehend those individuals," Morgan added.

"That's what they should be doing as to ensure law and order. These are criminals -- they should be held responsible. As the acting commissioner, I support the men and women 100 percent in what they're doing. These are not weird tactics. These are absolutely necessary tactics to hold these criminals responsible for criminal behavior."

source

Is it a "standard tactic" to "apprehend individuals" in unmarked cars?

Glorfindel
  • 1,452
  • 1
  • 17
  • 28
BurnsBA
  • 1,513
  • 1
  • 9
  • 22
  • 11
    Note that this is a strawman. Carson is complaining about alleged incident(s) in Portland, where uniformed men emerged from unmarked cars, and grabbed people without identifying themselves or who they work for, without announcing that the they were putting someone under arrest. Morgan is responding specifically to one part of the claim - that the use of unmarked vehicles is common. This is likely to get a trivial answer - that yes, [unmarked cars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_car#Unmarked_car) are used. Do you doubt that? – Oddthinking Jul 18 '20 at 19:56
  • 4
    The real WTF is if the officers would not identify themselves. The use of unmarked cars is pretty standard, inside the USA and outside. – DevSolar Jul 18 '20 at 20:20
  • @Oddthinking if Carson isn't talking about the Portland protests "in situations like this" that seems like an answer you could expand on as it rather nullifies the whole question. – BurnsBA Jul 18 '20 at 20:50
  • 1
    @Oddthinking "grabbed people without identifying themselves or who they work for, without announcing that the they were putting someone under arrest." Is someone claiming that? Unmarked cars and arresting people, yes that's in the claim, but also not saying "you're under arrest for x. You have the right ..."? I'm not sure, but I believe a valid (legal) arrest must be accompanied with that info. –  Jul 19 '20 at 00:05
  • 12
    Yes, people have claimed to have been detained and taken away to a holding cell without ever being given a reason for it. They've also claimed they weren't read their Miranda rights until after they were taken to a holding cell (which is legal, but highly unusual). https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/17/portland-protests-federal-arrests/ There's also videos of these 'arrests' (?) that confirm this. – AquaticFire Jul 19 '20 at 05:37
  • 3
    @fredsbend: The OP's first link includes a link to [a tweeted video](https://twitter.com/SenJeffMerkley/status/1283852273089683464?s=20). I am not vouching for its authenticity. Nor have I heard the Cavuto/Morgan interview. My concern is that this question focuses on whether the police use unmarked cars, which is trivially true and doesn't get to the heart of the disputed claim. – Oddthinking Jul 19 '20 at 06:14
  • 1
    There must be a reason why the mayor of Portland, Oregon, USA is demanding the removal of federal troops, as this [BBC story](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53466718) reports. It contains more links concerning 'unlawful detentions' and 'abuse of power' in Portland arrests. – Weather Vane Jul 20 '20 at 17:56
  • 1
    @WeatherVane There's federal officers in every city where there are non-military federal assets, with their primary charge being the protection of those assets. Portland has had a lot of lawlessness lately. It goes to follow that the federal officers would be making more arrests than is typical (which that article reports at a whopping *thirteen*). Politics seems like the first reason the mayor of Portland would want federal officers not involved (i.e. it makes him look incompetent). –  Jul 24 '20 at 20:29
  • @Oddthinking Wouldn't focusing on whether federal officers are actually doing any of these alleged *illegal* arrests be against the no current events policy? –  Jul 24 '20 at 20:30
  • LOL, why is this even a Q? Watch any movie where the feds surprise-arrest someone (*e.g.* Robert Hansen) They use unmarked vans. It's just common sense. –  Aug 01 '20 at 01:03

1 Answers1

6

The question is about "situations like this" as CBP Commissioner Mark Morgan says; a connection to civil rights protests. Maybe the distinction is arbitrary, but this seems different from plainclothes NYPD raping an 18 year old after detaining her in an unmarked van.

One related sort-of precedent is that of ICE. There are reported incidents of unidentified plainclothes officers detaining individuals using unmarked vehicles, either directly or indirectly: 1 2 3 4. I say "sort-of" as these incidents are not really associated with civil rights protests (as group events like above), but (some would say) are associated with civil rights (as argued by organizations like the ACLU).

But I did find one other incident similar to Portland event described in the question:

Video of police officers in plainclothes and military-style uniforms arresting a female protester Thursday — and taking her away in an unmarked van as bystanders scream for the officers to identify themselves

source

That story was posted on June 6, which was before federal agents had been deployed to Portland.

Edit: After the fact, another incident on July 28. People in plainclothes force a person into an unmarked van. NYPD then surround/protect the van before it drives away.

I was hoping that Morgan was speaking with some hyperbole and there really wouldn't be much to say. (The ideal answer would be from a hypothetical: "here's a court filing where it says this is unprecedented.") I don't know that it's really right to call this "a standard tactic" (judging by the national focus caused by the initial reporting), but given ICE close connection to CBP, and given prior precedent, it seems it's not exactly not-standard either.

BurnsBA
  • 1,513
  • 1
  • 9
  • 22
  • I thought the legal announcement / filing would be helpful to answer the question, but it was not. (1) [Attorney General Rosenblum Files Lawsuit Against U. S. Homeland Security; Announces Criminal Investigation](https://www.doj.state.or.us/media-home/news-media-releases/attorney-general-rosenblum-files-lawsuit-against-u-s-homeland-security-announces-criminal-investigation/) and (2) [notice of electronic filing (pdf)](http://opb-imgserve-production.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/original/ag_rosenblum_xxxx_updated_complaint_1595086491349.pdf) – BurnsBA Jul 19 '20 at 15:59
  • 4
    Interestingly, the lawsuit rules out one possibility I was worried about: that the person being "arrested" was actually an undercover cop, and the arrest wasn't illegal because it wasn't really an arrest. – Oddthinking Jul 19 '20 at 18:37