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There is a popular Youtube video, Priest Debunks Common Catholic Myths, in which Casey Cole, a Catholic and Franciscan, "debunks" the idea that the church wrongly tried Galileo.

The Church certainly held a trial against Calilio and stripped him of his teaching faculties. That happened. But not because it didn't like science - it was because Galileo didn't. The issue with Galileo was that he was teaching in schools what he could not yet prove, the very antithesis of scientific enquiry.

Does the above claim have any merit? I guess this can be broken down into two questions:

  1. Did Galileo teach scientific theories which were not yet proven?

  2. Was this the nature of the crime for which Galileo was charged?

I doubt these claims very much, especially the second one.

Laurel
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Blue
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    I think the video is disingenuous, facile. Is it supposed that if Galileo had proved the Copernican theory to be correct (instead of proving the Ptolemaic theory to be wrong) then the Catholic Church would have said "thanks we knew that all along" when it challenged their world model? And having burned Galileo's colleague Giordano Bruno at the stake for teaching the heliocentric theory? Galileo was considered dangerous, and the more proof he could find the more dangerous he became. – Weather Vane Jun 02 '20 at 18:53
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    @WeatherVane [Giordano "Bruno](https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03016a.htm) was not condemned for his defence of the Copernican system of astronomy, nor for his doctrine of the plurality of inhabited worlds, but for his theological errors, among which were the following: that Christ was not God but merely an unusually skilful magician, that the Holy Ghost is the soul of the world, that the Devil will be saved, etc." Cf. also his [_Dictionary of Scientific Biography_ entry](https://www.encyclopedia.com/people/philosophy-and-religion/philosophy-biographies/giordano-bruno). – Geremia Jun 02 '20 at 19:34
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    @Geremia so, as with Galileo, the official and indictable *excuse* becomes the one simple reason? Life is more complicated than one reason: Al Capone was jailed for tax evasion, but he did not come to fame for that. Re your answer, AFAIK the reason that Copernicus was not persecuted was because he was *afraid to publish*. – Weather Vane Jun 02 '20 at 19:41
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    @WeatherVane "_Copernicus […]_ was afraid to publish"‽ _De revolutionibus_ was published, with [Andreas Osiander](https://www.encyclopedia.com/people/philosophy-and-religion/protestant-christianity-biographies/andreas-osiander#articleWrapper-955740)'s famous preface. And before Copernicus, Bishop of Lisieux [Nicole Oresme](https://www.encyclopedia.com/people/philosophy-and-religion/other-religious-beliefs-biographies/nicole-oresme#articleWrapper-955170) (d. 1382) published on the diurnal rotation of the earth and was not condemned. – Geremia Jun 02 '20 at 19:50
  • @WeatherVane Countless theologians discussed the question of the plurality of worlds (cf. part 5 of [this](https://isidore.co/calibre#panel=book_details&book_id=4757)), and they were not condemned entertaining the possibility. In fact, Bishop [Étienne Tempier](https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/tempier-etienne) of Paris, in 1277, _condemned_ the proposition that "34. That the first cause [God] could not make several worlds." ([Grant 1974](https://isidore.co/calibre#panel=book_details&book_id=3471) p. 48). – Geremia Jun 02 '20 at 20:00
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    Note that, at least since the 20th Century, scientists don't talk about "proving" a hypothesis. That is a word that belongs in mathematics and law courts. So saying teaching something that isn't proven is the antithesis of scientific inquiry is wrong from definitions. Nothing in science is proven. – Oddthinking Jun 02 '20 at 20:07
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    ... and the video posted in the question is just another attempt to airbrush that out of history. – Weather Vane Jun 02 '20 at 20:12
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    @WeatherVane: Keep it nice, please. – Oddthinking Jun 02 '20 at 23:35
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    @Oddthinking sorry if you felt you had to delete one comment. I think the factual part was that Copernicus' book *De revolutionibus orbium coelestium* was published just before his death in 1543, when he knew he was dying. – Weather Vane Jun 02 '20 at 23:37
  • I can't find the source again, so I'll make a comment. I found that he was "fired" because he disobeyed a papal order : to present both heliocentric and geocentric models before the bishop council. He accepted, then presented only the heliocentric model. The refusal of a papal order was considered a crime. – MakorDal Jun 03 '20 at 07:11
  • So, John Paul II was unaware of this in 1992 when he reversed the conviction? – GEdgar Jun 04 '20 at 21:05

2 Answers2

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Mostly true.

  1. Did Galileo teach scientific theories which were not yet proven?

Indeed. In 1632 Galileo published "Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems". In it he presented a fictional dialogue between proponents of heliocentrism and geocentrism. However, he was merely repeating the same inconclusive or false arguments that had been debunked or questioned previously by several prominent geocentrist scientists such as Tycho Brahe.

His book can be viewed as a late response to the 18 arguments against heliocentrism that Francesco Ingoldi had sent him several years before. However, while with the hindsight of today's knowledge it may seem obvious that Galileo was right, most of the arguments against heliocentrism could be explained away with alternative hypothesis, but none of those hypothesis could be substantiated with evidence.

The main argument Galileo tried to provide in support of heliocentrism was that he argued that the Earth's movement was responsible for the sea tides.

Historical writer E. J. Aiton states that the discourse "is among the least successful of [Galileo's] investigations and completely misrepresents the phenomena it is supposed to explain,". (Aiton, E.J. “Galileo’s Theory of the Tides.” Annals of Science 10. 1 (1954). 44-57)

He also tried to answer common criticisms of the heliocentric model, such as why objects didn't fly off the surface due to centrifugal force. Galileo's argument was that the Earth is spinning too slowly to notice the effect, since it takes a whole day to complete a turn. However, other scientists correctly calculated that despite this, tangential velocity at the equator is more than 1500 km/h. Before Newton's gravity, there wasn't any explanation that could make those numbers believable. He also developed the first theory of relativity, which, like heliocentrism, was right but he couldn't prove either conclusively.

The main obstacle to heliocentrism was lack of stellar parallax. In 1588 Tycho Brahe presented his Tychonic system, which was not discredited by the Galileo observations with the telescope and still had a motionless Earth in the center of the Universe. Although it was known then that lack of stellar parallax could be explained if the stars are nearly infinitely far away from us, that was considered unthinkable back then, and no copernican follower could explain that until the XIXth century.

So the only advantage heliocentrism offered over geocentrism was a slightly less mathematically complex system (only slightly because without elliptical orbits at variable speeds, Galileo still had to resort to epicicles), but at the cost of a system which contradicted pretty much any intuition and observable phenomena known at those times. Heliocentrism was gaining supporters slowly thanks to scientists like Kepler, whose elliptical orbits provided a vastly simpler explanation to planet movements, but, incredible as it may sound, the first proof of Earth's movement didn't came until 1727 with the discovering of light aberration by Bradley, and stellar parallax wasn't confirmed until a century later.

  1. Is this the main reason why the Catholic Church prosecuted him?

He was prosecuted for publishing a book, yes, but not because the theories discussed in it weren't yet proved (though, they weren't, see point 1), but because he had been forbidden to espouse heliocentrism as a real thing.

Although initially published without any problems in 1543, Copernicus books and the copernican system had been banned in 1616.

The immediate result of the 1543 publication of Copernicus's book was only mild controversy. At the Council of Trent (1545–63) neither Copernicus's theory nor calendar reform (which would later use tables deduced from Copernicus's calculations) were discussed.(1) It has been much debated why it was not until six decades after the publication of De revolutionibus that the Catholic Church took any official action against it, even the efforts of Tolosani going unheeded. Catholic side opposition only commenced seventy-three years later, when it was occasioned by Galileo.(2)

It has been much debated why, but the main reason seems to be the religion wars that would ravage Europe for nearly a century. What started as a mere scientific hypothesis could be taken as an argument to disprove the literality of the Bible and then starting a new doctrine. In a time where no real separation between religion, science and state existed, this would mean war. Literally, with cannons and armies.

Galileo had had several interviews with the Pope, who invited him to publish a book comparing the two systems, heliocentrism and geocentrism, and suggested to include the Pope's own opinions in this book, but he should stay away from suggesting that heliocentrism was anything else that an useful mathematical trick to calculate the orbital movement, never an actual depiction of reality.

Galileo, however, wrote that book making a clear assumption that heliocentrism was real, and to make things worse, put the Pope's words in the character of Simplicius, who despite being named so because of a philosopher used in Aristotle's books, sounds very much like "simpleton" in Italian, and indeed spoke like a fool.

So, actually, he was arrested by flagrant disobedience, not because the Church opposed his theories - even if they remained unconvinced. Curiously enough, the Church was siding with the prevalent scientific consensus of the time, which was geocentrism.

As for the reasons for the Catholic Church to forbid him to present heliocentrism as something real, were many and quite sound. Postulating a novel astronomic theory and hence creating a new religion because of, was not only not uncommon, but almost inevitable. Several people had lead revolts in the name of a new interpretation of the texts of the Bible, in some cases starting with espousing a new discovery which contradicted the scriptures - if the discovery was a real thing or not it wasn't that important -, and the biggest of them all, the 30 Years War, was in all its rage right then. Several influential people, including nobles close to the king of Spain were accusing the Pope of not being stern enough in prosecuting those who, in the name of science, were disseminating falsehoods against the true religion (his own, obviously). The Pope couldn't risk loosing the help of the catholic kingdoms in the middle of a war, nor the risk of somebody using the teachings from Galileo, Giordano Bruno or anyone else to divide even more the christendom.

It is worthy to note than protestant movements thought pretty much the same about it. In his 'Commentary on Genesis' John Calvin said that

"We indeed are not ignorant that the circuit of the heavens is finite, and that the earth, like a little globe, is placed in the centre." (1)

And remember that Giordiano Bruno was burnt by the Catholic Church only because he managed to flee from Helmstedt before luterans did it. Luter did not approve heliocentrism either:

"This is what that fellow does who wishes to turn the whole of astronomy upside down. Even in these things that are thrown into disorder I believe the Holy Scriptures, for Joshua commanded the sun to stand still and not the earth" (Donald H. Kobe (1998). "Copernicus and Martin Luther: An Encounter Between Science and Religion". American Journal of Physics. 66 (3): 190)

So, as a resume, theologian Thomas Schirrmacher argued:

Contrary to legend, Galileo and the Copernican system were well regarded by church officials. Galileo was the victim of his own arrogance, the envy of his colleagues, and the politics of Pope Urban VIII. He was not accused of criticizing the Bible, but disobeying a papal decree. (3) (Emphasis mine)

Laurel
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Rekesoft
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    Please [provide some references](http://meta.skeptics.stackexchange.com/q/5) to support your claims. – Oddthinking Jun 04 '20 at 16:27
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    "However, he was merely repeating the same inconclusive or false arguments that had been debunked or questioned previously by several promiment geocentrist scientist such as Tycho Brahe." <- This needs a pretty strong reference! – Oddthinking Jun 04 '20 at 16:32
  • @oddthinking Added some references - the ones I've been able to gather in english, since most of my knowledge of the case against Galileo comes from sources in spanish. – Rekesoft Jun 04 '20 at 20:27
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    @Oddthinking You say "strong reference" as though it's a particularly strong claim. It's not. Brahe is known in history for two main reasons: he observed the lack of parallax in the stars (and therefore the impossibility of heliocentricity), and he trained Kepler. I hope you didn't downvote this post for committing a faux pas equivalent to crediting without a source, say, Kepler's discovery of elliptical orbits. – pokep Jun 05 '20 at 17:13
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    Can't help it: "with canons [sic] and armies" :) – paul garrett Jun 19 '22 at 03:21
  • @paulgarret That typo was so good that survived two editions from myself and one by a third person. :D – Rekesoft Jun 20 '22 at 07:54
  • The rebuttals offered by Tycho Brahe were based on false assumptions, which were correctly explained, but, since they lacked the *imagination* to conceive of interstellar distances, that makes Galileo the one who didn't prove his case? Copernicus, himself, and Aristarchus already *explained* it, then. It wasn't proven/confirmed until later, but the claim that they couldn't explain it is false. Claiming that Galileo was flawed because his theories weren't conclusively proven, when he was refuting a theory that was NEVER proven, and was proven wrong, is a specious argument. -1 – PoloHoleSet Jun 20 '22 at 18:47
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    This would be like saying that it would have been justified to convict and imprison Einstein for correctly postulating the existence of black holes or the relationship between the passage of time and velocity of an object. Neither of those were possible to be proven or disproven by measurements for many, many decades, but the logical construct and weight of observation led them to be generally accepted, even before the final proof came in. He was considered that much more of a genius for being that far ahead of his time, not the antithesis of a scientist. – PoloHoleSet Jun 20 '22 at 18:50
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    @PoloHoleSet Unbridled imagination is not a scientific quality per se, or the QAnon members would have got several dozen Nobel prizes. When some scientific consensus is challenged by a novel, radical theory, it must be supported by very solid evidence. The stronger the challenge, the stronger the evidence needed. Heliocentrism was a challenge to every evidence known to scientists of the time, and there was very solid evidence *against* it. Lack of parallax was a definitive, convincing proof that heliocentrism wasn't real, and so Galileo's theories remained contested. – Rekesoft Jun 21 '22 at 07:13
  • @PoloHoleSet Just like today we believe that the universe is expanding because of the redshift of distant galaxies, there are alternative hypothesis to that - maybe gravity doesn't behave the same over vastly long distances. However, meanwhile this isn't proved, the inflationary universe, the Big Bang and dark matter and energy are the current scientific realities. If in the future somebody proves this is all wrong that won't make the scientist of today "bad scientists". Galileo could be a visionary, but Brahe was the more solid scientist of the two. – Rekesoft Jun 21 '22 at 07:18
  • @PoloHoleSet As for the prosecution, see point 2. He wasn't arrested for his ideas, but for his actions. If Einstein had leaked the Project Manhattan documents to Nazi Germany he'd also had been imprisoned, but not because of his theories about relativity. – Rekesoft Jun 21 '22 at 07:20
  • @Rekesoft - I'm not talking about "unbridled imagination" where things are made up from whole cloth. In terms of lacking "imagination", I'm talking about whether someone can conceive of something possible outside of the accepted dogma. You know, the essence of science and discovery. And, again, you claim that Galileo, in teaching against the accepted orthodoxy was teaching concepts not yet proven, but, again, the rebuttal against him, at the time, was also concepts not yet proven, concepts that we know to be WRONG. – PoloHoleSet Jun 22 '22 at 15:22
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    @Rekesoft - The revisionist claims by the Catholic Church, as demonstrated by the example in the original question seem to have been accepted by you, unquestioningly. In all the pronouncements about Galileo's "crimes," there are references to the sins that are centered in the ramification of the *ideas,* not the methods. The Inquisitional commission's pronouncement about heliocentrism - "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical ***since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture***" - that's about ideas, not methods. – PoloHoleSet Jun 22 '22 at 15:30
  • @PoloHoleSet The rebuttal against Galileo weren't concepts not proven. Lack of parallax, objects not flying away because of the Earth's rotation, were solid evidences against heliocentrism, so geocentrism stayed. That didn't mean there weren't doubts against geocentrism either. Just like today we know that relativity and quantum physics are incompatible, so one of them (or both) are WRONG. And sure enough, there's dozens of Galileos out there proposing imaginative alternatives to this, but until they get some solid evidence, consensus is on relativity and quanta. – Rekesoft Jun 23 '22 at 07:06
  • @PoloHoleSet Again, have you bothered reading the answer? In the XVth and XVIth centuries publishing a novel astronomic discovery that didn't agree with the Bible and starting a religious war with thousands of dead were one and the same thing, so Galileo was not forbidden to investigate heliocentrism - hell, the Catholic Church was *employing* him -, but to be careful about the publishing of his theories. Just like, you know, some theories about how the white race is superior were responsible for a genocide, and now publishing similar books in that country can land you to jail. – Rekesoft Jun 23 '22 at 07:11
  • @Rekesoft - Obviously, there weren't "evidences" against it, since they were (A) correctly explained previously, and (B) heliocentrism was correct and geocentrism wasn't. You can't "prove" or show valid "evidence" for concepts that are, ultimately, proven to be false. The prevailing status quo was the accepted, and vigorously defended status quo because it was compatible with and did not challenge the religious dogma. Pretending this was an objective, science-based decision is silly. Indeed, they couldn't keep religion out of the judgements. – PoloHoleSet Jun 23 '22 at 22:44
  • @Rekesoft - Yes, I did read the answer. And, while critiquing your Part 1 as illogical, if I wanted to focus on Part 2, it would be that it's nothing but pure conjecture, on your part, with ***nothing*** offered to support this. And NONE of the arguments or examples in Part 2 supports the claim that Galileo was prosecuted/persecuted for offering science without enough objective, scientific foundational support. All of the part 2 arguments are that it was strictly for maintaining religious dogma. So how do you get "mostly true" out of that? – PoloHoleSet Jun 23 '22 at 22:56
  • @Rekesoft - You're comparing Galileo's offering an actual scientific theory, that was proven right over time, to pseudo-scientific nonsense offered to support white supremacy? Really? As part of supporting your claim that it's mostly true that the Catholic Church went after Galileo because he was lacking in scientific rigor? You're all over the board here, and not making sense. – PoloHoleSet Jun 23 '22 at 22:59
  • @PoloHoleSet You seem unable to judge events in their actual context. You state "You can't "prove" or show valid "evidence" for concepts that are, ultimately, proven to be false." If that's the case, then nothing can be proven (or even argued) without a time machine (set for the end of time). – pokep Jun 23 '22 at 23:20
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    @Rekesoft hardly scratched the surface in his criticism of heliocentrism. Heliocentrism posits intersecting orbits, for which no mechanism could be described. (Newton failed at this, as well - his theory of gravitation was not fully accepted for decades as Descartes' vortices offered a more reasonable model.) The heliocentrists had no explanation for gravity, whereas geocentrism offered a satisfying model. And Brahe did not lack imagination - he was aware that the cosmos could be much larger than usually supposed. But he calculated a maximum limit based on the apparent size of the stars. – pokep Jun 23 '22 at 23:37
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    The irony was that Copernicus' goal all along was to reinforce church dogma by reconciling astronomy with Aristotelian ideals of celestial and terrestrial motion. Specifically, he wanted to show that the planets moved in uniform circles, without retrograde motion and changes in velocity. That the circles happened to center on the sun was rather accidental. But the obsession with circles was the fatal flaw. By the time of Galileo's trial, Kepler had shown that planetary motion was elliptical, not circular, and Galileo was defending an outdated theory. – pokep Jun 23 '22 at 23:44
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    Kepler's theory was accepted with very little resistance for the simple reason that his calculations fit the observations. Being based on a theory of circular motion, Copernicus' tables were actually *less* accurate than the Ptolemaic tables, which certainly did not help the heliocentric cause. – pokep Jun 23 '22 at 23:47
  • @pokep - No, I understand context, but claiming that the ultimately true, or truer concept was disproven or rebutted by the ultimately false or less true concept is fundamentally impossible. It's one thing to say that the accepted status quo was not yet dislodged. It's entirely another thing to say the false concept successfully rebutted the truer one. You can say it was rebutted, *in error*, because they didn't know better, but not ***correctly*** rebutted. – PoloHoleSet Jun 24 '22 at 15:18
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    @PoloHoleSet So what does it mean to "correctly" rebut a theory, if not to apply the facts as known at the time? By your definition, Newton did not "correctly" rebut Descartes' theory of vortices, as the Newtonian theory was ultimately replaced by Einstein's relativity. Indeed, nothing has ever been "correctly" rebutted, as there is nothing we know today that might not be superseded in the future. – pokep Jun 27 '22 at 18:34
  • @PoloHoleSet I'm also curious what you mean by "less true"? Compared with the Ptolemaic system, Copernicanism was "more true" in its heliocentric concept, but "less true" for insisting on circular orbits based on Aristotelian concepts of "celestial" motion. What is your heuristic for judging which is the greater error? – pokep Jun 27 '22 at 18:50
  • @pokep - "less true" means already overturned or shown to be completely wrong, but claiming absolute truth of something that may get overturned for a more modern concept or may be understood in a different light starts a whole side conversation, as you showed. And, no, by my definition, Newton DID "correctly" rebut Descartes. Geocentrism was not believed because it was a proven scientific concept that was eventually overturned as we developed a more complicated understanding of the universe. It was a default false belief based on mythology and ignorance that never had a scientific basis. – PoloHoleSet Jun 28 '22 at 12:04
  • @PoloHoleSet I'm an atheist myself, but your hate towards religions (or at least, Catholicism) is just pushing you too far. Science is based in observation. Every observation will tell you that the world is flat and it is not moving, and the Sun, the Moon and the stars cross the sky. These observations predate religions by dozens of thousands of years. By the time of Galileo the Earth had been succesfully proven round, but everything about its movement remained unchallenged. – Rekesoft Jun 28 '22 at 12:15
  • @Rekesoft - No, not "every observation." Otherwise Aristarchus would not have offered heliocentrism in the 3rd century BC, he would not have correctly identified that the sun is many times larger than the earth, and the moon, and that the sun is much further away than the moon (though his calculations of the magnitude were off because of an incorrect measurement that the calculations were based from). He also correctly identified the order of the planets in terms of distance from the sun. Based on observations. – PoloHoleSet Jun 28 '22 at 16:07
  • I'm still at a loss as to how you can claim that his theories were "debunked" by defenders of geocentrism when they weren't actually debunked. – PoloHoleSet Jun 28 '22 at 16:10
12

1) Did Galileo teach sciencific theories which were not yet proven?

The Jesuit Cardinal Robert Bellarmine thought that there was not sufficient proof in his time. He wrote, in his 12 April 1615 letter to the Carmelite priest Fr. Foscarini* (my emphases):

I say that if there were a true demonstration that the sun is at the center of the world and the earth in the third heaven, and that the sun does not circle the earth but the earth circles the sun, […]. But I will not believe that there is such a demonstration, until it is shown me. Nor is it the same to demonstrate that by assuming the sun to be at the center and the earth in heaven one can save the appearances, and to demonstrate that in truth the sun is at the center and the earth in heaven; for I believe the first demonstration may be available, but I have very great doubts about the second

*Foscarini wrote a theology book trying to reconcile heliocentrism with Scriptures.

2) Is this the main reason why the Cathlic church persecuted him?

To say Galileo was persecuted seems to imply he adhered to a different religion than Catholicism. He was a devout Catholic, hence the Church had jurisdiction over him in moral or religious matters. His house arrest was quite unusual; it was really a paid retirement, during which he wrote his most important physics work, The Two New Sciences (1638).*

*For quotes and supporting documentation, cf. this answer to the question "Why was Copernicus not persecuted by the church, but Galileo was?"

Geremia
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  • My apologies I used the word "persecuted" colloqually; I did not mean to imply that Gallileo followed a different religion. – Blue Jun 02 '20 at 20:02
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    "persecute" doesn't imply someone follows a different religion. But it does imply malicious intent, so "prosecute" is much better here. – DJClayworth Jun 02 '20 at 21:09
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    What is this narrating? Bellarmin argues against Foscarini, in *1615*, Galilei is not involved. Then in *1632* Galilei provokes his old friend, now infallible pope, and falls out of favour. Is that relevant here? Or is it just important to somehow allude to 'not persecuted'? The heretical insight from *Saggiatore* that basic atomism contradicts Catholic doctrine of Eucharist transsubstantation should play no role? Circumventing a mod-suspension (inquisition & censorship)? That the pope encouraged GG to write *Dialogo* without knowledge of Bellarmin conditional: Kopernikus *must* be hypothesis? – LangLаngС Jun 02 '20 at 21:18
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    "*I will not believe that there is such a demonstration, until it is shown me*". This may well have been fake open-mindedness; the speaker claims that they will accept good evidence, but when evidence is produced it is dismissed or ignored. – Paul Johnson Jun 04 '20 at 10:36
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    Just checked the reference. Bellarmine goes on to say that even if assuming that the sun is at the centre of the universe "can save the appearances", that doesn't imply that it is true. In modern terms he seems to be saying that heliocentrism may merely be a convenient model that just happens to produce the right predictions despite being false. – Paul Johnson Jun 04 '20 at 10:44
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    @PaulJohnson cf. [Structural Realism vs. Scientific Formalism](https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/q/9940/2014) – Geremia Jun 04 '20 at 17:42