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In July 1997, Vaclav Smil wrote an article in Scientific American on humankind's use of the Nitrogen Cycle (emphasis added):

Synthetic fertilizers provide about 40 percent of all the nitrogen taken up by [cultivated plants]. Because they furnish—directly as plants and indirectly as animal foods—about 75 percent of all nitrogen in consumed proteins (the rest comes from fish and from meat and dairy foodstuffs produced by grazing), about one third of the protein in humanity’s diet depends on synthetic nitrogen fertilizer.

While the article includes references to four books/articles as "further reading," this is an interesting and uncited assertion. I assume "depends on" to mean that the nitrogen in a third of the protein in humanity's diet is fixated through synthetic, industrial processes. In other words, "derived from" synthetic processes.

At first glance, 33 percent is such a large number! How can humanity be so dependent on an "artificial" chemical processes? Then with more thinking, the number is not obviously wrong. And then with even more thinking, it's a small number! Only 33 percent? I always thought synthetic fertilizers were more significant to mankind. They are everywhere and reporting is consistent on its negative effects (environmental damage from runoff, etc.).

A separate journal article states:

Now, over 80% of the nitrogen in the average human body originates from the Haber–Bosch process (Howarth 2008).

As the Haber-Bosch process is used to (synthetically) produce ammonia for plant fertilizers, I would assume that the above statement is equivalent to

80% of the nitrogen in humanity's diet is derived from synthetic nitrogen fertilizer. (my own inference)

And, according to the Royal Society of Chemistry's General Briefing Sheet (emphasis added):

Nitrogen is an important part of your DNA, which defines what you are like in many ways. We cannot survive without nitrogen in our diet – we get [nitrogen] in the form of protein.

So, I thus refined my earlier statement

80% of the protein in humanity's diet is derived from synthetic nitrogen fertilizer. (my own inference)

This statement does not agree with Smil's statement, yet it seems to reflect cited science.

Do "one third (33%) of the protein in humanity’s diet depend on synthetic nitrogen fertilizer?" 80%? Some other number?

Of course, this number may have changed between July 1997 (Smil article) and December 2008 (Howarth article). I am interested in Smil's statement.


Note (based on comments):

@sumelic correctly points out:

Although the quotation uses the word "depends", it might be easier to avoid opinion if you used a different phrasing such as "Is the nitrogen in a third/80% of the proteins we consume derived from synthetic fertilizer?"

Hence, the question is more simply stated as "Is 33% of the protein in humanity's diet derived from synthetic nitrogen fertilizer?"

Examples:

  1. If the nitrogen is fixated through rhizobia, it is "natural."

  2. If the nitrogen is fixated through the Haber-Bosch process, it is "synthetic."

  3. If some corn is grown using synthetic fertilizer, a cow eats the corn, and a human eats the beef, the nitrogen in the beef proteins is "synthetic." (credit @Jan)

@Jan also notes: "Currently vegetal sources of protein dominate protein supply globally (57%), with meat (18%), dairy (10%), fish and shellfish (6%) and other animal products (9%) making up the remainder." (source)

Barry Harrison
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  • I need help tagging (please?) and am not sure if the small text belongs in the question. I basically copied tags from the recent [protein question](https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/44368/do-humans-need-high-protein-foods). Sometimes, people want a "reason for skepticism" and that is the subscript portion of the question. – Barry Harrison Jul 15 '19 at 03:49
  • I guess the "depends" (just) has to be read in context of "in industrialised farming". Another way to phrase the "nitrogen originates" is probably *not* "depends" as in "wouldn't grow at all with natural fertiliser or mined nitrate"? If you could clear that up before As roll in? – LangLаngС Jul 15 '19 at 13:42
  • @LangLangC Thanks so much for editing! I am not sure exactly what would be a good way to clear this up (not an expert on this topic). It would probably be best to interpret Smil's statement. I am reading it again and **I think he means 33% of the nitrogen in the proteins humans consume are fixated through synthetic industrial processes (e.g. Haber-Bosh)**. I may be wrong. What do you think? Feel free to further edit! – Barry Harrison Jul 15 '19 at 18:54
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    How does an ammonia molecule "know" if it is natural or artificial ? – blacksmith37 Jul 15 '19 at 21:18
  • @blacksmith37 It doesn't. The nitrogen in the ammonia molecule may have been incorporated through the Haber-Bosch process in which case it is "artificial." If it has been incorporated by a bacteria, it is "natural." – Barry Harrison Jul 16 '19 at 05:10
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    33% seems low to me. I'd say that practically everything we eat was directly or indirectly fertilized using syntethic fertilizders so I'd have expected a percentage way closer to 100%. – Giacomo Alzetta Jul 17 '19 at 11:10
  • @GiacomoAlzetta OK. Nice to see I am not alone in my thinking! – Barry Harrison Jul 17 '19 at 16:33
  • @GiacomoAlzetta It has been said, something like, "Modern agriculture is a system for converting fossil fuel into food". This includes synthetic fertiliser and pesticides, tractor fuel and transport to markets. I don't know how to make that a precise quantitative Question. – Keith McClary Jul 18 '19 at 05:12
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    @BarryHarrison There are some hangups about what it is that you are after here. LangLangC already asked for clarification, and there is an argument forming in response to my answer. Could you please clarify what it is that you are wondering? Do you wonder if 33% of the protein in our diet depends on synthetic fertilizer, or do you wonder how much protein depends on synthetic fertilizer? Or is there some other nuance? – Aaron Jul 22 '19 at 19:42
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    Although the quotation uses the word "depends", it might be easier to avoid opinion if you used a different phrasing such as "Is the nitrogen in a third/80% of the proteins we consume **derived from** synthetic fertilizer?" – paradisi Jul 23 '19 at 02:09
  • @Aaron I agree with protein **in our diet** depends on synthetic fertilizer. – Barry Harrison Jul 23 '19 at 04:20
  • @sumelic Thank you for explicitly stating this. I feel this is what I am getting at (through my examples). I will edit this into the question. – Barry Harrison Jul 23 '19 at 04:21
  • This gets interesting, but not really much narrower?. 1. just factual: is really 1/3 of nitrogen contained in humans from Haber-Bosch or 2. analytical and projecting: is this 1/3 really *dependent* on HB, as otherwise without production of food would suffer for 2a price, 2b sheer volume unattainable for billions of people as mining & bacterial fixation don't/wouldn't suffice on the current level of consumption and 2c *if* they eat much meat. If it is just factual, I guess *removing* "depending" should be considered? Just focus on "is number for origin that high"? (I'd love analysis for rest2) – LangLаngС Jul 23 '19 at 06:59
  • I just made a suggested edit. If the "depends" ambiguity is removed, then I will delete my answer. – Aaron Jul 23 '19 at 14:20
  • @Aaron I let your edit pass because I could not kill such an edit. It certainly has its merits; that's for sure. That said, I immediately roll-backed the edit. Here's why: In the title, "dependent on" -> "derived from." As a non-technical non-expert this makes little to no change of my perception of the question. I do not necessarily oppose this change. 1st occurrence of "depends on" -> "is derived from." I moderately oppose this change. I want to show how my thought process mirrors Smil's. Therefore, I try to use as much of the words in Smil's original statement as possible. – Barry Harrison Jul 24 '19 at 05:35
  • 2nd occurrence of "depends on" -> "is derived from." I oppose this edit for the same reasons. "Do" -> "Is." Grammar change. Neither for nor against (can't go wrong with good grammar). "depend on" -> "derived from." Strongly oppose. I added quotations because I am referencing Smil's statement. Copied word for word except I deleted the 's' behind "depends" to maintain proper grammar. Given that I do not support rewording of the original question, it makes no sense to change the title. – Barry Harrison Jul 24 '19 at 05:37
  • Purely my opinion: With the follow-on edit (referencing @sumelic), the question is much less ambiguous than before. Proposed changes contribute little to meaning of question as perceived by the average user. Hence, roll-back. Again, when you answered the question, it may have been ambiguous. This has since been fixed. – Barry Harrison Jul 24 '19 at 05:38
  • I have now further edited the question to better reflect the question. @Aaron Thank you for bringing this up. – Barry Harrison Jul 24 '19 at 05:41
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    @BarryHarrison I disagree with "Proposed changes contribute little to meaning of question as perceived by the average user." Even though I understand now what you actually want, that's not what the question actually says. Simply putting a disclaimer at the bottom which essentially says "Don't read this for what it actually says, instead read it for what you now know I want" doesn't fix that, in my opinion. While it may seem like a nitpick to you, it actually does make it a very different question. Depends means depends. And there is no **depend**ency. – Aaron Jul 24 '19 at 21:29
  • @Aaron I see. I have made a further edit. Is this better? – Barry Harrison Jul 24 '19 at 21:39
  • @BarryHarrison, if corn is grown using synthetic fertilizer, a cow eats the corn and a human eats beef, do you consider nitrogen in beef proteins as coming from the synthetic fertilizer? – Jan Jul 25 '19 at 10:47
  • @BarryHarrison, I strongly suggest you to include this crucial info into your question: "Currently vegetal sources of protein dominate protein supply globally (57%), with meat (18%), dairy (10%), fish and shellfish (6%) and other animal products (9%) making up the remainder." (from [here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5532560/)). – Jan Jul 25 '19 at 11:07
  • *Please clear up in Q what you understand "depend" to actually mean!* Am sure you now transport in your text just "originates/derives from – only", but I think in this context 'depends' means or should mean "cannot be produced without HaberBosch at all". Or: "Amount of N produced as food cannot be achieved/sustained without HB"? – LangLаngС Jul 25 '19 at 12:54
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    @LangLangC, it's clear that he asks "How much nitrogen in protein in human diet is derived from synthetic fertilizers?" And I agree the question should be edited for that. – Jan Jul 25 '19 at 16:05
  • @Jan Sorry, I never actually read your comments until now. For your first question, that would be nitrogen from synthetic means (your analysis is correct). I will also edit your quote into the question. And for your last comment, I totally agree with you. – Barry Harrison Jul 28 '19 at 23:21
  • @LangLangC Do you think this question would be better with 2? e.g. the current one + the one you are suggesting. – Barry Harrison Jul 28 '19 at 23:34
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    I'd like to see the Q streamlined. Since prelim Qs aren't 'popular:' Sub-1. Is it true x% are derived…? Optionally interesting (I'd have liked a 2nd opinion), sub-2: is current agricultural output (ie what ends up on our plates) really 'dependend' on synth-N (eg hypo: would go down if HB turned out to be climate killer, consensus to ban emerged, no synth-alternatives economical). That's risky. I'd try going for sub1 alone and ask a 2nd Q on 'depend' then (but that's how I think it should be done anyway) If it is "derived" *you* want, cut "depend" (see Odd's comment below A: He read "What is") – LangLаngС Jul 28 '19 at 23:42
  • @LangLangC Thanks for the advice, I will edit the question without adding another one then. – Barry Harrison Jul 28 '19 at 23:44
  • @LangLangC What do you think about the question now? I don't 100% understand how to streamline it. It is a bit lengthy. – Barry Harrison Jul 28 '19 at 23:55
  • @Aaron What do you think about the edit? – Barry Harrison Jul 28 '19 at 23:57

1 Answers1

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I think the premise is a bit backwards here. The most direct and shortest answer is: No, it does not depend on so much artificial fertilizer. "A uses B" is not the same as "A depends on B". The plants are not going to die if they have no synthetic fertilizer applied.

1) Non-synthetic fertilizers could be used. There is nothing to cite here, as that would be proving a negative. Instead, if anyone were to believe non-synthetic fertilizers were necessary, the onus of burden would be on them to prove why.

2) Another option is to use no fertilizers at all. There are options other than fertilizers that can be used. Letting a resource rest and replenish itself is one tactic. Rotation is another. Farmers can plant different crops in a field each year. The different plants have different needs, so by planting crop A this year they consume more of chemical B from the ground, but next year plant C needs chemical D, so we're all good - further, some plants actually put certain nutrients into the ground which could be good for next year's crop. You can also let a field lie fallow. You can also just completely ignore a field for 1 or more years so it has plenty of rest. All of these options can be done using zero fertilizer.

3) You can also just ignore good farming practices and just do whatever you want, just keep planting the same thing in the same place and accept that your plants will eventually perform poorly.

So many non-synthetic fertilizer options.

Many of these options will result in at least slightly reduced crop yield, so you need to utilize more land area to get the same amount of product output. But again, that does not mean that there is a dependency on the synthetic fertilizer, just that the synthetic fertilizer is chosen instead of using more land area.

So you see, there are other resources that can be used instead of synthetic resources, such as: non-synthetic fertilizers, land, different choices in field planning. Even if you do use these other options, however, once you have used all your non-synthetic fertilizer, all the land available, and if you are using proper field planning techniques, then that leaves you with X amount of produce. If you want greater than X, then you need to find some other way to increase production, and if you're already doing everything else then the answer is either use synthetic fertilizer or accept the amount of produce you have.

So no, there is no dependency. It is a choice, a choice which not everyone in the world makes. Synthetic fertilizer is just another tool in the toolbox, and each tool user decides what tools they use. Because it's easiest and provides the maximum produce per unit area, many decide to just order up a tank of fertilizer, whether it is synthetic or not, and drop it on the field.

Aaron
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    There are two issues with this answer. (1) It is basically your personal opinion on a subject, rather than a referenced answer showing empirical evidence. We are not interested in that. – Oddthinking Jul 22 '19 at 17:05
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    (2) It is picking out the word "depends" and applying your own definition to it, which avoids the substance of the claim. It isn't a "What if?" scenario where you can imagine a world without synthetic fertilisers. That's a strawman. It is a "What is?" question: What percentage of the world's protein comes from synthetic fertilizers today? – Oddthinking Jul 22 '19 at 17:06
  • @Oddthinking concerning "opinion", that's why I challenged the frame of the question initially. Everything I said is not opinion at all. It is not even academic. It is all common knowledge, and even many non-farmers (I'm not a farmer) know it. I think the better nit-pick you should do would be to ask if this is even an appropriate question for skeptics. Knowing the answer, I thought it wasn't a great fit, but I'm the type to be slow to use moderator intervention and instead prefer to just give the correct answer. Empirical evidence is "Just ask anyone who knows anything about growing plants" – Aaron Jul 22 '19 at 17:26
  • 2) @Oddthinking You've just moved the goal posts... except you've moved it to a question that OP has already answered in the question itself. "What percentage of..." is not the question asked. – Aaron Jul 22 '19 at 17:27
  • @Oddthinking Also, someone already commented about the use of "depends" asking for the question to be fixed if OP did not actually mean "depends," and yet "depends" is still there a week later. So you can take that part up with OP. And I'm not even sure what you mean about applying my own definition... are you sure you know what "depends" means? I mean that literally, not offensively. "be controlled or determined by ; rely on" – Aaron Jul 22 '19 at 17:31
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    One one hand, we have a Scientific American article looking at the history of fertiliser use, making a claim (e.g. Intensive agricuture, such as that practiced in these Scottish fields [pictured], relies on the industrial production of nitrogen fertilizer" . On the other hand, we have a random person on the Internet saying "No, that's wrong. Everyone knows that." You can't expect us to accept your arguments without references. – Oddthinking Jul 22 '19 at 18:52
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    @Aaron "_Everything I said is not opinion at all. It is not even academic. It is all common knowledge_" It's your opinion that it's common knowledge. OP is referencing academic studies that apparently oppose what you're saying, and the support you have for the alternative is "everyone knows it". That's like the epitome of non-skepticism. – JMac Jul 22 '19 at 18:53
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    The goal posts haven't moved. The title is not the whole claim; it is a summary of the claim to help people decide whether to read the question. The question links to a number of articles making the claim. The OP doesn't know if the percentage claimed is right, and expresses skepticism that it could be right. – Oddthinking Jul 22 '19 at 18:53
  • @Oddthinking That Scientific American claim you just made agrees with my answer. Please compare apples to apples. I specifically said that there comes a point when you've exhausted other options at which point more fertilizer is necessary to increase crop production per unit area, which is essentially the same thing "Intensive agriculture, such as that practiced in these Scottish fields, relies on the industrial production of nitrogen fertilizer" is saying. That does not support the "protein […] depends on synthetic nitrogen fertilizer" claim. – Aaron Jul 22 '19 at 19:28
  • @Oddthinking The title is not the whole claim... and then the body appears (to me anyway) to say about the same thing. It gives a bunch of numbers as background, then the actual question reads (emphasis OP's) "**Do "one third (33%) of the protein in humanity’s diet depend on synthetic nitrogen fertilizer?"**" It does then have some non-bolded text on the next line which I did not understand initially, but in trying to fathom what your problem is I think I might get now - the choice of wording/bolding might be confusing the matter by breaking up the question. (1/2)... – Aaron Jul 22 '19 at 19:32
  • (2/2) Maybe OP intended to ask the question that you are pushing for. If that's the case, then a better reaction by you would be to try to bridge the question that was asked with the question that was intended. This moment is the first point at which I was able to find a way to read the question that lent any credibility to what you were saying. So perhaps you should lay off the harsh statements and start trying to see things through a different lens. – Aaron Jul 22 '19 at 19:35
  • @JMac Your comment is like saying it's ok to ask on skeptics "Do chicken nuggets _really_ come from an animal that gets killed and turned into food?" Everyone who knows anything about chickens will try to hold back a laugh as they say merely "Yes." Who knows? Maybe it is less than 50% of the population that knows that chicken nuggets actually originate from an animal that was killed for your consumption. By "common knowledge" I meant "Not knowledge that takes any kind of understanding beyond laymen's and which you can answer with the slightest bit of research, even by asking random neighbors." – Aaron Jul 22 '19 at 19:38
  • @JMac Perhaps you are misconstruing my answer in a similar fashion to what it appears Oddthinking was doing. I encourage you to read my answer at face value and from the interpretation of the question that I was answering from. – Aaron Jul 22 '19 at 19:40
  • @Oddthinking I've pinged OP again for more clarification. Hopefully that will help the matter. – Aaron Jul 22 '19 at 19:43
  • @Aaron If someone asks a question on Skeptics.SE it's generally because they are _skeptical_ of a notable claim. If someone were skeptical of that claim, first, it would make sense to understand _why_ they are skeptical. In this case, OP found conflicting information and pointed that out. In the case of chicken nuggets, we would also expect OP to elaborate on why they are skeptical and what they have found that led to skepticism. Even given all those assumptions, just _asserting_ that chicken nuggets come from a killed animal _shouldn't_ convince someone who is skeptical. – JMac Jul 22 '19 at 19:45
  • Assertions and appeals to common knowledge should never be convincing to someone who is rationally skeptical, which is why this site wants references with answers. – JMac Jul 22 '19 at 19:49
  • @JMac At that level of skepticism though, if someone refuses to accept an explanation such as that I have given on something so extremely basic, then they likewise shouldn't be convinced no matter what. Even if I were to provide a citation to "WeGrowProteinRichSoybeansWithoutSyntheticFertilizer.edu", then at the level of skepticism you suggest that just moves the question to "Do the people at this edu site really grow protein rich soybeans?" At some level, there have to be assumed to be axioms, or else this becomes philosophy.SE – Aaron Jul 22 '19 at 19:55
  • … either that, or the skeptic needs to explain further what they want clarification on and what would convince them. Again, that's something that would need to be asked of OP. – Aaron Jul 22 '19 at 19:59
  • @Aaron That is why I said "rational skepticism" and prefaced it by comparing with this question, where the references are brought up, and there's a rational reason to be skeptical. If someone posted "People claim nuggets are made from chicken meat, but there's no way that's true." It would just be closed because it's a horrible example of a good skeptical question. If it was well-researched though, you would expect the answers to also be well researched - and point to that research so that others can verify it. "This is accurate, trust me" or "Find the references yourself" are unhelpful. – JMac Jul 22 '19 at 20:01
  • Let us [continue this discussion in chat](https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/96499/discussion-between-aaron-and-jmac). – Aaron Jul 22 '19 at 21:46
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    @Aaron I personally apologize for any unclear questions. – Barry Harrison Jul 23 '19 at 04:26
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    @Aaron To further clarify my use of the word "depends:" I carried it over from the Scientific American article. – Barry Harrison Jul 23 '19 at 04:34
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    @BarryHarrison Ok, I understand. Still, Scientific American articles can be sloppy with their wording just like you or I can be. And if the wording is sloppy enough that I read it to mean something that was not intended, then I can do nothing but answer it accordingly. I still feel my answer is correct to the question as worded, so I'll leave it, but I do hope you do get the answer to the question that you intend. Hope it works out for you; cheers! – Aaron Jul 24 '19 at 21:32