Does Germany produce more waste than the US?

Question

According to the German Environment Agency, Germany produced 411 million tons of waste in 2016. According to the US Environmental Protection Agency, the US produced about 260 million US tons (236 million metric tons).

Are these numbers correct? Are they comparable measurements?

So the actual claim (Germany produces more waste than the US) is yours and yours alone? — Dmitry Grigoryev, Apr 02 '19 at 07:42
@DmitryGrigoryev: No...?!? He's quoting his sources for 411 million tons / Germany vs. 260 million tons / USA right there in the question? (Apples and oranges notwithstanding, as Barry pointed out.) — DevSolar, Apr 02 '19 at 08:59
@DevSolar your argument would allow arbitrary questions! Just because the data sources are vaguely related, there still is no proof of a notable claim that "Germany produces more waste than the US", except this question itself. — I'm with Monica, Apr 02 '19 at 09:32
I think this question doesn't fit the [notability requirements](https://skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2506/what-is-a-notable-claim) for Skeptics. It's a good question though for environmental sciences, which has its own stack https://earthscience.stackexchange.com/tour Pollution control is part of environmental science, if Wikipedia is correct. And they do have a [pollution tag](https://earthscience.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/pollution) on the aforementioned stack. — Fizz, Apr 02 '19 at 10:59
@DevSolar If I'm not mistaken, neither of the sources makes a comparison between the US and Germany. The question asks to verify specifically this comparison, not the numbers present in the sources. — Dmitry Grigoryev, Apr 02 '19 at 11:54
@Sklivvz Regarding "Are these numbers correct?" would you say that both sources are trustable? — Barry Harrison, Apr 04 '19 at 04:59

Barry Harrison · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-04T04:30:01.110

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The reason for this discrepancy is because the data from the Umweltbundesamt includes construction and demolition waste (see figure below and surrounding text on your linked webpage) whereas the data from the EPA "does not include everything that is landfilled in MSW, or nonhazardous, landfills, such as construction and demolition (C&D) debris, municipal wastewater sludge, and other non-hazardous industrial wastes." The EPA data you cited only includes "trash, or municipal solid waste (MSW), as various items consumers throw away after they are used."

If you are interested in data for just municipal solid waste (like in the EPA website), @Milster has recommended this Statista page where it is shown that Germany has produced 51.05 million metric tons of MSW in 2017 whereas the Unites States has produced 258 million metric tons. Thus, the US produced 5 times as much municipal solid waste as Germany in 2017. The Statista values for US MSW in 2017 approximately agree with the EPA figure (below).

When evaluating the raw numerical data, keep in mind that the US population is 4 times the German population (source, source). The average person in the US produces 0.79 metric tons (790 kg) of MSW a year and the average person in Germany produces 0.62 metric tons (620 kg) of MSW a year. In other words, "the US is only 25% worse, or Germany 20% better (@Deduplicator)."

~~Is it true that a country with smaller GDP and a quarter of the population produces so much more waste?~~

~~No, Germany does not produce "so much more" Municipal Solid Waste (MSW) than the US.~~

~~Does the US not classify certain kinds as waste?~~

~~The cited EPA report only classifies MSW and does not include all other types of wastes.~~

Are the numbers comparable measurements?

No, the numbers are not comparable measurements. Certain types of waste are not included in the cited EPA numbers.

edited Apr 04 '19 at 04:30

answered Mar 30 '19 at 22:09

Barry Harrison

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@DevSolar Fixed. Thanks for the catch! Would you like units of metric tons, pounds, or kilograms (as the latter are probably more relatable)? – Barry Harrison Apr 01 '19 at 07:38
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@BarryHarrison: I'm fine with the units as they are. Metric is best of course, but I don't have problems with taking pounds if that's what's in the sources. Good job on qualifying "tons" though, that's something that can be a nuisance (same as gallons and miles -- which ones? :-D ). – DevSolar Apr 01 '19 at 08:31
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Also (if you want to compare american individual's wastefulness) remember that in certain parts of the US burning your (plastic) waste is still common practice, whereas in Germany it is not, leading to a higher reported waste as well – Hobbamok Apr 01 '19 at 08:41
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If US counts only a subset of landfill and Germany counts waste where it is collected, then it is not a fair comparison because in Germany only the remainders of burned general waste (unrecycled) is landfilled. – Radio Controlled Apr 01 '19 at 11:15
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@Hobbamok From what I can understand, MSW includes all waste consumers throw out, regardless of how the waste is later managed (e.g. through incineration). The final statistics are comparisons of MSW and *only* MSW. – Barry Harrison Apr 01 '19 at 13:18
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@RadioControlled I have accounted for the fact that direct comparisons between the original two cited sites "is not a fair comparison" by comparing only one type of waste. – Barry Harrison Apr 01 '19 at 13:19
25% better/20% worse: that is per-capita. Per unit land area, USA is about 6x better than Germany. And as the thing that landfill consumes is land area, it seems a better metric. – Yakk Apr 01 '19 at 15:33
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Major difference I see is that grass clippings and yard waste are counted as MSW, accounting for 50 million tons, according to EPA. In more urbanized Europe, people don't have big lawns . Yard waste is rarely landfilled, it's collected separately and composted or, as in my area, burned as biomass for carbon-neutral electricity. – user71659 Apr 01 '19 at 16:33
@user71659: You'd have to follow that one up with some sources. Yes, Germany is more densely populated, but I would not posit that this results in the observed skew of numbers. People in the US also have a lot more opportunities to compost themselves, and I wouldn't assume that less dense population equates to larger *yards* on average either. Plus, whether grass clippings and yard waste *are* counted / end up as MSW at all depends on a lot of regional factors. – DevSolar Apr 02 '19 at 09:04
Certainly any metric is going to show up factors like this. If I compost or burn garden waste myself, that's not waste; if I pay the local council to compost it on my behalf, then it is. – Michael Kay Apr 02 '19 at 09:18
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@Yakk Wait, in what way is it a better metric? That kind of depends on what you're trying to measure and why, and it certainly doesn't have any obvious relation to the question being asked here. – Cubic Apr 02 '19 at 10:02
@cubic if you have a million people on a square km of land, vs 3 people on a million square km of land, garbage per capita will have little use while per unit area will explain why the dense folk have a larger garbage problem... – Yakk Apr 02 '19 at 11:08
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@Yakk We're talking about total produced waste, not what we do when we have it. Yes, if you're very densely populated it's more difficult to get rid of the same amount of waste than if you have tons of extra space, but that wasn't what the question was about. – Cubic Apr 02 '19 at 11:30
@DevSolar People in US suburbia don't actually mow their own lawns and compost their trimmings. They hire somebody who dumps it in the yard waste bin. Why compost when the city does it for free? I can't see how denser population = more yards. People in multistory apartments can't physically have yards. – user71659 Apr 02 '19 at 15:18
@user71659: You think all people in the US hire someone to have their lawn trimmed? Every single one? And you think *no one* in Germany does that? Not a single one? -- I just want to point out that this kind of "stands to reason..." might make for a good argument over a pint, but doesn't work that well on Skeptics.SE, or really anywhere you want to actually get to the ground of matters. – DevSolar Apr 02 '19 at 15:22
@DevSolar The vast majority, yes. What I see in this thread are Germans taking TV tropes and assuming they're true, like how its common to burn plastic. Simple numbers on trash don't explain cultural differences in themselves which are necessary to properly interpret the numbers. This is the typical "Mythbusters" effect, you take one seemingly self-contained data point and draw a faulty conclusion. – user71659 Apr 02 '19 at 15:27
@user71659: What I see is one user making broad assumptions on cultural differences, and another calling that user out for that. It's just there seems to be some confusion about who's who between the two of us. ;-) – DevSolar Apr 02 '19 at 15:28
@DevSolar How many lawn space per capita do they have in Paris, London, Berlin, or New York? The fact is that 1) US is much more suburban in Europe 2) Suburban houses have lawns 3) Lawns are mowed every 2 weeks in suburbia and waste is picked up by the city to recycle 4) EPA counts lawn waste as MSW. This effect also explains for the [larger potable water consumption per capita](https://www.statista.com/statistics/268338/daily-per-capita-water-consumption-in-selected-countries-2010/) as you water them every other day. You simply cannot ignore the impact of lawns on resource consumption. – user71659 Apr 02 '19 at 15:33
@user71659: You are *utterly* beside the point by now, and this is not a discussion forum. – DevSolar Apr 02 '19 at 15:38
@BarryHarrison I was refering to local, private burning of your thrash. And that is NOT included in the statistics, since it never reaches any system which keeps track – Hobbamok Apr 02 '19 at 16:37
@Hobbamok I see! Your concern here is valid. I am unsure if I can find reasonable estimates of trash locally burned in various countries, but will try. – Barry Harrison Apr 02 '19 at 21:45

Does Germany produce more waste than the US?

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