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Is there any study done on the claim that the area of the brain associated with the sense of self "shuts down" when praying?

In the NBC News article "What Happens to Your Brain When You Pray?", Newberg makes the following statement:

it was particularly "fun" to watch what happened inside the brains of a group of Franciscan nuns when they joined together in a meditative prayer. The area of the brain associated with the sense of self began to "shut down".

He didn't show any documents, scans, or pictures that back up this claim. And according to Quora question "What part of the brain is responsible for sense of self?", the area of the brain associated with the sense of self hasn't been located yet.

Grasper
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  • Since the claim is specific to the Franciscans during "meditative" prayer, is the observation one about prayer, broadly, or more about meditation? – PoloHoleSet May 25 '17 at 17:07
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    more about meditation – Grasper May 25 '17 at 17:24
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    Newberg seems to have rather specific info about areas of the brain. – GEdgar May 25 '17 at 20:03
  • We know the area of the brain responsible for one's sense of self? – AmagicalFishy May 26 '17 at 02:19
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    @PoloHoleSet: Aren't meditation and prayer entirely different things? Prayer is (conventionally, at least) asking a deity for favors. which would seem to imply belief in that deity. One can meditate without believing in any deity at all. – jamesqf May 26 '17 at 06:15
  • Even if we assume the quote accurately describes what happened, another potential interpretation would be that the sense of self shut down not because they were praying or meditating, but because they "joined together" in a _group_ prayer, focusing on their role in the group rather than acting as individual selves. – Dave Sherohman May 26 '17 at 08:52
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    @jamesqf There are several types of prayer. The prayer described in the question is more similar to a meditation mantra than an actual favor-asking prayer, so the comparison with meditation isn't out of line. – T. Sar May 26 '17 at 10:52
  • @jamesqf, I don't think it makes much more difference for your brain if you believe in a diety or not. It matters to you but on a level, we can observe our brain we won't be able to see any difference. – Grasper May 26 '17 at 11:30
  • @TSar: But calling that sort of meditation mantra a "prayer" is just inaccurate use of language. I can use a mantra for meditation without any attached religous/spiritual beliefs, and my brain scans might look similar to those Franciscan nuns. I imagine both would be quite different from scans of Texas high school football fans praying for their team to win the game. – jamesqf May 27 '17 at 05:29
  • @jamesqf You are correct. What I'm trying to say is that the activity that those nuns are doing is more like meditation. The mantra they use has a religious, prayer-like meaning, but it still a meditation mantra in the end. You could replace their prayers for repetitions of the words "potato-tomato-potato" and get the same result. – T. Sar May 27 '17 at 05:38
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    @TSar: Exactly. So the claim is wrong because they are not testing what happens during prayer, but what happens during meditation. – jamesqf May 28 '17 at 03:52
  • @TSar, no, the rosary is not a mantra type or at least it shouldn't who practice it and it should be always conscious aware. They should focus on what's being said. "potato-tomato-potato" type of prayer is without the conscious focus. Eastern meditation also goes without conscious focus but Western is trying to keep consciousness aware of what is being said. And that is the difference and what make the "sense of self" area of the brain to shut down in western/Christian meditation. – Grasper May 29 '17 at 15:10
  • @Grasper You can't have the "sense of self" inactive _and_ conscious focus at the same time. It's like wanting to have light in your room with the switch flicked off. Western meditative prayer is like eastern indian meditation - it has some religious meaning on the words being said, but that's irrelevant to the meditation per se. There is absolutely no difference between the two. The claim is just trying to induce a supernatural overtone to a know effect of meditation (aka changes in brain activity). – T. Sar May 29 '17 at 15:46
  • @Grasper That's why this effect is seen on "Meditative Prayers", and not all prayers per se. It's the meditation aspect of the act that gives it the ability to influence brain scans, not the religious aspect. Try to repeat anything to yourself enough times, and your brain will start acting fuzzy. – T. Sar May 29 '17 at 15:50
  • Unless we have a control, it could be that prayer shuts down all thinking. – Andrew Grimm May 29 '17 at 21:05
  • @tsar, interesting point – Grasper May 31 '17 at 21:23
  • It would be the logical part in my view.... – Namphibian Jun 05 '17 at 01:10

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