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Many websites claim that some school children in Holland had to learn "how to pray in a mosque".

Is this claim true?

user5341
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fffred
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    Is it really true that in some countries educated people don't know how to place their forehead on the floor? – Jon Hanna Mar 21 '17 at 10:59
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    @JonHanna The key is bowing in the direction of the Black Stone in Mecca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone "bowing to or kissing such sacred objects is repeatedly described in the Tanakh as idolatrous". So for Jews and Christians it may be against their conscience to bow toward Mecca. – DavePhD Mar 21 '17 at 11:51
  • @DavePhD Sure, but on the other hand Jerusalem is pretty sacred to both Jews and Christians; and in Netherland and rest of Central and Northern Europe - as well in the USA - I think both Mecca and Jerusalem would be in the same general direction... A few degrees off, and God alone knows where you're facing. – Baard Kopperud Mar 21 '17 at 18:35
  • @BaardKopperud It's true that Daniel prayed in the direction of Jerusalem (Daniel 6:6-10), but this was in defiance of being told to pray only to Darius. The conscience of some will require them to resist as Daniel did, and not bow in the direction of the Black Stone and Kaaba of Mecca. – DavePhD Mar 21 '17 at 19:10
  • You mean they were not forced to learn how to pray in a christian church? – Martin Schröder Mar 28 '17 at 13:09

1 Answers1

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Children from Openbare basisschool (obs) Vinkenbuurt were taken (in the sense of a field trip) to Gulzar-e-Madina Mosque in Zwolle.

See the article OBS Vinkenbuurt maakt kennis met andere culturen :

Als onderdeel van het project ‘andere culturen’ hebben leerlingen van OBS Vinkenbuurt een bezoek gebracht aan de Ghulzar-e-Madina moskee in Zwolle. Daar gaf imam Mawlana Tahier Wagid Hosain Noorani een rondleiding in zijn moskee. Alle vragen die de leerlingen hadden werden op een leuke en begrijpelijke manier beantwoord. De leerlingen van OBS Vinkenbuurt probeerden ook het Arabische alfabet na te zeggen. Ook hebben ze ervaren hoe het is om te bidden. Ze hebben tijdens het bezoek veel geleerd over de Islam.

Translation:

As part of the project 'other cultures', pupils at OBS Vinkenbuurt have visited the Ghulzar-e-Madina mosque in Zwolle. There, Imam Mawlana Tahier Wagid Hosain Noorani gave a tour of his mosque. All the questions the pupils had were answered in a fun and understandable way. The pupils of OBS Vinkenbuurt also tried to say the Arabic alphabet. They also experience what it is like to pray. They have learned a lot about Islam during the visit.

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A video of the visit shows that the students are learning/practicing the physical aspect of how to bow and kneel in a mosque. Three girls (see at 1:39) do not participate in the bowing and kneeling.

DavePhD
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    Did they _learn_ a prayer, or just _perform the motions_ of a prayer? – Reinstate Monica -- notmaynard Mar 20 '17 at 19:13
  • @iamnotmaynard the source in the OP makes it sound like the focus is on the physical "are told to put their ‘elbows on the ground’ and ‘hands close to the ears.’" – DavePhD Mar 20 '17 at 19:23
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    @iamnotmaynard according to Al Arabiya, the children are "being taught how to pray" http://english.alarabiya.net/en/media/digital/2016/12/31/WATCH-Anger-after-video-shows-Dutch-school-children-taught-Islamic-prayer.html – DavePhD Mar 20 '17 at 19:49
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    On a field trip to a fire station, children are also taught how to use the firehose, but they aren't actually "learning" to put out fires. –  Mar 20 '17 at 20:29
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    Removed a ton of political arguments. May I remind you that on this site we don't care for or want political opinions, that we will delete them mercilessly and will suspend users who ignore this repeatedly? You are free to use the [chat] to talk about this subject all you want, not the comments. – Sklivvz Mar 20 '17 at 22:04
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    "menstruating girls are permitted to watch but not participate" - Unsure if this has any relevance here (particularly if the implication is that the 3 abstentions were required to _not_ participate instead of simply allowed to opt-out). On the basis of age I'd say it doesn't look like it would be a plausible concern in this instance. Judging from the picture at least. Maybe one of the other sources gives an actual age-range on the group? – aroth Mar 21 '17 at 00:49
  • @aroth my first thought was that the 3 on the side were choosing not to participate, but then I remembered that in Canada public schools girls with periods are not allowed to participate. I have no idea which is correct in this instance. Could just be a coincidence that all 3 are girls. – DavePhD Mar 21 '17 at 00:54
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    The bottom of the video, at the beginning, says "gr 5-6". In Holland gr 1 is age 4, so gr 5-6 are aged about 8-9 years old, which is about how old they look to me. So, "not permitted to" for that reason doesn't seem likely. "Not required to" seems more likely. – ChrisW Mar 21 '17 at 01:40
  • @ChrisW yes, seems to young – DavePhD Mar 21 '17 at 02:02
  • group 8 is 11-12 years old. Groups 5-6 would be a spread of about ages 8-10, 7-11 in extremes. Early for puberty, but not unheard of. – jwenting Mar 21 '17 at 07:41
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    Just want to point out that they are not "required", they have been given a tour and shown how to pray but I don't see any evidence that they've been required to learn the prayer. Also, unrelated to the claim, the muslim prayer is pretty much like any other prayer - a bunch of praises/admiration for God, it's not like they've been indoctrinated to join ISIS... – ventsyv Mar 21 '17 at 13:40
  • @ventsyv The claim source doesn't say "the prayer", it says "how to pray in a mosque". – DavePhD Mar 21 '17 at 13:50
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    I'd like to point out that this was part of a project to learn about other cultures and it sounds like they would have done other things too. This is relevant. – PointlessSpike Mar 21 '17 at 15:14
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    Don't know who should be most offended... after all, the Koran forbids exactly this sort of stuff - non-muslims going through the motion of the rituals, but doing it just for "fun"... (And no, I'm not a muslim - more of a lapsed Christian and born-again atheist.) – Baard Kopperud Mar 21 '17 at 18:39