5

This article, originally posted on the daily mail, basically says that bin laden warned his people from ISIS, saying that they are brutal, you can read the article for more info. Is there any truth to it?

Lynob
  • 417
  • 5
  • 12
  • @Sklivvz how to know when this issue is solved, thus how to know when I can ask about it, because the closing reason says that it is closed because it is currently unsolved, thus how to know when to ask about it? Maybe I'll ask for this question to be reopened then – Lynob Aug 17 '14 at 23:02
  • 2
    besides I read the meta post, my question is not about ISIS, it's about bin laden who died long ago, so it's technically not current issue. – Lynob Aug 17 '14 at 23:08
  • 2
    I mean everything that goes viral on the internet can be classified as current issue, unless you're asking about it a year later – Lynob Aug 17 '14 at 23:09
  • 3
    There's an ongoing propaganda war against ISIS. While I am sure they do terrible things, many of the news regarding them have proven wrong after a few weeks. If anyone in the community has *positive evidence* to bring to the table we can reopen right away. This is simply to prevent the flurry of bad answers we usually get. – Sklivvz Aug 17 '14 at 23:11
  • @Sklivvz ok got it, thanks for the clarification, i don't spend much time here so i don't know what is going around. personally i believe everything they say about them, i live in lebanon next to them, 2 weeks ago they tried to invade my country, they are worst than satanic people, all you see is beheaded victims by the name of god – Lynob Aug 17 '14 at 23:16
  • @Sklivvz There's an alleged copy of the letters, in Arabic and in English translation, downloadable from https://www.ctc.usma.edu/posts/letters-from-abbottabad-bin-ladin-sidelined which was linked from [this Slate article](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2014/06/osama_bin_laden_s_seven_rules_for_terrorists_isis_will_regret_not_following.html) -- is this "positive evidence" or do we need something more "positive" than that? – ChrisW Aug 17 '14 at 23:53
  • If this "alleged" copy is reliable and relevant, then we can certainly reopen. – Sklivvz Aug 18 '14 at 08:03
  • @Sklivvz It's totally "relevant": i.e the claim is that there's a letter found in Bin Laden's compound which warns Al-Qaeda against ISIS; and this is that letter. The letter's being on a .edu site and referenced in newspapers makes me assume that it's "reliable" ... but I can't and don't know how to prove its provenance (e.g. if you think it might be mis-information manufactured or planted by the CIA, or anything like that). – ChrisW Aug 18 '14 at 08:08
  • @ChrisW If it contains confirmation of the news, then it's positive evidence. If it doesn't then it's not evidence of anything because the news in the OP does not specifically refer to those. – Sklivvz Aug 18 '14 at 09:18
  • @Sklivvz The first sentence of the referenced article says, "... The Daily Mail claimed **quoting a 21-page letter found at bin Laden’s compound after his killing**", therefore IMO a copy of that letter is evidence. Also IMO it's also obviously inherent in that claim that the evidence's chain of custody would have been via the American military and secret service (so the evidence shouldn't be discounted on that basis alone). The OP could have asked for independent/other evidence of Al-Qaeda's repudiation, but in this question is specifically asking about evidence found in Bin Laden's compound. – ChrisW Aug 18 '14 at 09:42
  • @Sklivvz usma.edu is "West Point" i.e. the US Military Acedemy, IOW a semi-official source. Maybe the OP wanted more detail and/or evidence from a[ny] source other than a newspaper. – ChrisW Aug 18 '14 at 09:49
  • I can see many claims in the article: that Al-Qaida warned people "online" that ISIS was not part of it; that Bin Laden "was not quite comfortable" with ISIS; that there is a 21-page document, not by Bin Laden, urging Al-Qaida to cut all ties with ISIS. The question is _specifically_ about Bin Laden, and it is not claimed that the document is by him specifically. AFAICT, you are proposing to answer a different question than the one being asked _or_ providing irrelevant evidence. What am I missing? – Sklivvz Aug 18 '14 at 09:49
  • Let us [continue this discussion in chat](http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/16505/discussion-between-sklivvz-and-chrisw). – Sklivvz Aug 18 '14 at 10:03
  • @Fischer, note that I've changed the close reason. After accurately reading the article we are not sure what you are skeptical of. Can you cite the relevant passage? – Sklivvz Aug 18 '14 at 10:31
  • @Sklivvz people asked many questions about that article, like who discovered it? why we're talking about it now? did bin laden write it or is the cia trying to make jihadists loyal to bin laden not join isis etc. – Lynob Aug 18 '14 at 10:52
  • I understand, but the question needs to be specific in order to be able to answer it. One part of the article could be true, another could be false, etc. – Sklivvz Aug 18 '14 at 10:54
  • 1
    @Fischer See [this chat](http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/16505/discussion-between-sklivvz-and-chrisw) to understand why Sklivvs not sure of what you're asking. Are you asking whether the letters exist? Whether they're written by Bin Laden? Whether they're critical of ISIS? – ChrisW Aug 18 '14 at 10:56
  • As for whether the CIA wrote it, IMO it's obvious that any data taken from bin Laden's compound during the American raid might theoretically have been created/manufactured/planted by the Americans. So if that's your question perhaps you need to ask a different question entirely, e.g. whether there's independent (not via the American military) messages from Al-Qaeda, e.g. which Al-Qaeda posted on the internet, instead of messages which the Americans took from bin Laden's computer and published on an American military training web site. – ChrisW Aug 18 '14 at 11:00
  • @ChrisW okay i get it, my question is it written by bin laden or not? – Lynob Aug 18 '14 at 11:15
  • @ChrisW especially that al qaida and isis are now killing each other in syria, so might be some truth to it – Lynob Aug 18 '14 at 11:16
  • @Fischer The article you linked to says, "The letter wasn’t drafted by Osama bin Laden himself, but by a top Al-Qaeda official, according to the report." Also the articles claim that the letters were found (by the American's), not that they were delivered (to "warn his people"): so your question title doesn't perfectly match any specific claim which was made in the article you referenced. – ChrisW Aug 18 '14 at 11:20
  • There is a short letter written by bin laden himself which speaks against muslim-against-muslim violence in general, without mentioning ISIS in particular; the detailed 21-page letter which specifically talks about ISIS and which was dound on bin laden's computer was written by someone else. – ChrisW Aug 18 '14 at 11:29
  • @ChrisW okay that makes sense, i mean the bin laden didn't the that the group would call himself ISIS, since when he was around all jihadists were part of al qaida and what we now call isis, did not control part of iraq then, nor part of syria, so they couldn't insert "iraq and syria into the name" – Lynob Aug 18 '14 at 20:47
  • is it the paper you linked for above or is it another one? – Lynob Aug 18 '14 at 20:48
  • In the downloaded ZIP file linked from page I linked to above, in the English version, "SOCOM-2012-0000004 Trans.pdf" is the 21-page document described in the newpaper article, and "SOCOM-2012-0000019 Trans.pdf" is the short document written by Osama bin Laden himself. – ChrisW Aug 18 '14 at 21:06
  • @ChrisW interesting document, if this topic wasn't closed i would have accepted your answer :) – Lynob Aug 19 '14 at 17:47
  • Did bin laden and ISIS co-exist? If yes, they must be linked to each other. One fanning the growth of other as they are both in the same business of terrorism. Does it matter who is more brutal? You are both terrorists killing innocent people and deriving some weird pleasure and livelihood from it all. Get real man work for peace not for G N R. – Shalabh Raizada Jan 25 '16 at 11:01

0 Answers0