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© Time Warner Studios MCMXCVIII

A post on MTVSE questions why movies use Roman numerals in the copyright notices of the end credits. The accepted (and referenced) answer (ref 1, ref 2) states that this convention probably arose in a bid to make it difficult for viewers to determine exactly how old the show is.

However, another (unreferenced) answer suggests a couple of other plausible and practical answers:

  1. Roman numerals are easier to read when the film degrades. Just a little degradation, the number 6 could be mistaken for the number 5. It's not as easy with VI and V.
  2. Unlike Roman numerals, Arabic ones are hard to distinguish in fine print.

So which is true? Were Roman numerals used to mask the age of a movie? If so, why? What is the basis for this conclusion? Or were they used for improved legibility?

Or is the reason something else altogether?

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    This will be tricky to answer, because it is asking for the motivations of a group; that doesn't make it off-topic, just difficult. – Oddthinking Dec 20 '13 at 03:04
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    This has been answered on another site----->http://movies.stackexchange.com/a/10150 – Andalur Dec 22 '13 at 04:35
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    This may call for more speculation that what is usually allowed. – Neil Meyer Dec 23 '13 at 07:41
  • I've removed some pseudo-answers. Let's set a good example here :-) – Sklivvz Dec 23 '13 at 13:44
  • If you follow the trail of the given references you end up in "it is believed" and "the consensus is", with no real justification. Roman numerals have been and are still used in [many situations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_numerals#Modern_usage), mostly by tradition. – Martin Argerami Dec 23 '13 at 13:36
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    @Andalur the OP is explicitly skeptical of that answer. – Sklivvz Dec 23 '13 at 14:00
  • Can you provide reference to any recent (made in last 10 years), which would use Roman numerals for copyright notice? – vartec Jan 04 '14 at 17:19
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    @vartec see any BBC production – mmmmmm Feb 26 '15 at 12:06
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    How does putting dates in Roman numerals mask the age? It's not difficult for any literate person to read them. It's also a long-standing custom for dates on building cornerstones, copyright dates in older books, even (American) football games. – jamesqf Feb 26 '15 at 19:40

1 Answers1

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From American Legion Magazine (March 1949), page 23:

they're playing down the fact that these are old pictures. So the movie goer pays his money to see a movie-usually it has big names and these are played up-and he finds he's been rooked by an old turkey that he wouldn't have paid a dime to see ten years ago....Of course every picture has a copyright date in the first few feet of film along with the credits. But credits are flashed on the screen quickly and the date is in Roman numerals which are not easily read.

From "Reveal the Facts" Educational Film and Audio-visual Guide (1962) volume 41, page 305:

We thought we were joking when we told the representative of one of the leading film producers it was the fault of his company that school systems had inadequate budgets for the purchase of films. You can imagine the height to which his eyebrows raised on that one! But as we discussed the idea, there seemed to be some truth in it. Now after much further thought, we're inclined to believe the idea is also worthy of your consideration.

The point is this. By the standards that are applied to textbooks, most of our educational film library collections are filled with out-of-date and obsolete materials. A principal cause of this woeful situation is that producers have insisted - and still insist - upon concealing the copyright facts of the films they produce. They use the smallest size, most illegible letters available, and conceal the dates in deceptive Roman numerals, hoping that nobody will every realize when the film was made.

Alternative link to article

Likewise, from the Manual of Film Evaluation (1967) published by the Educational Film Library Association, at page 10:

Date (This is the hardest item to obtain - - producers often conceal it of fail to mention it at all. If the film is copyright, there will be a copyright date somewhere in the titles. It will be written in minute Roman numerals and tucked away at the corner of one of the credit titles and will remain on the screen for a split second only. The best way to find it is to run the titles through a viewer until you find a date. Another method is to check the Library of Congress cards if available. A third is to...

Even in The nature of mathematics (1967) by Frederick H. Young at page 28:

When a motion picture is to be shown on television the date is invariably given in Roman numerals and is shown for a very brief interval. Because most of the viewers are not adept at reading Roman numerals, they are not alerted by the sight of MCMXXXIV for a few seconds on the screen that they are about to be subjected to a 1934 movie

Similarly, form Flicks, Flacks, and Flux: Tides of Taste in the Onomasticon of the Moving Picture Industry Names: Journal of the American Name Society (1975), vol. 23, pages 221-280, by Leonard R. N. Ashley, quoting from page 273:

Few people bother to notice these credits and (like the copyright dates—traditionally expressed in Roman numerals so as not to be too easily read, for no one in this day of reissued movies and television sales wishes to "date" them) they are more for legal purposes than for the public.

(alternative link to article)

From Modern Australian Usage (1993) by Nicholas Hudson at page 277:

There are four problems with Roman numerals:

(1)Comprehension Very few people regularly come across, and can hence read fluently, any numbers beyond twelve; so they should not be used in any sequence going further than this unless the intention is to give the information (if, say, required to do so by law) yet at the same time to conceal it, as happens with the dates on films

So for over 65 years it has been recognized that this is the reason.

DavePhD
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    Concealment can not be the reason, as I noted above, since any halfway educated (in the western tradition, anyway) person can easily read Roman numerals. Or are you implying that the moviegoing public is functionally illiterate? – jamesqf Apr 29 '15 at 18:28
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    @jamesqf See "Speed and accuracy of reading Arabic and Roman numerals" Journal of Applied Psychology vol. 36 pages 346-7 if you are interested in actual experimental data. – DavePhD Apr 29 '15 at 18:55
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    @jamesqf Keep in mind that even though `MMXV` is pretty easy to parse quickly, `MCMLXVII` and `MCMLXXV` require more thought. And it's moving rapidly across the screen with no way to stop it for a closer look. – Bobson Apr 29 '15 at 20:23
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    @Bobson - even as a pre teen child myself and most people I know had no problems reading the Roman numeral dates. – mmmmmm Apr 29 '15 at 21:56
  • @Bobson: No way to stop it for a closer look? You mean your video player doesn't have a pause function? – jamesqf Apr 30 '15 at 06:36
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    @jamesqf - Did the one you had in 1962 or 1975 have a pause? What I tried to imply (but obviously failed at) was that this was a practical idea back then, but it doesn't make as much sense now. – Bobson Apr 30 '15 at 14:55
  • @Bobson: Actually, I don't have a video player myself, unless you count various computers which could play them if I ever wanted to. (But that's a matter of choice.) The real problem is that you have nothing other than a handful of conspiracy theorists (quoted above) that suggests that 1) there ever was a practical purpose to concealing copyright dates; or 2) that Roman numerals would have been an effective means of doing so. – jamesqf May 01 '15 at 18:34
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    @jamesqf The Journal of Applied Psychology article quantifies how much longer it takes to comprehend Roman numerals for college students. Combining that with the duration the informaiton was on thee screen refutes your point #2. As far as point #1, the "Reveal the Facts" article reports actually meeting with movie producers to discuss the issue, and is printed in a journal that is solely about movies. It is not reasonable to refer to this as simply the writing of a conspiracy theorist. – DavePhD May 01 '15 at 18:44
  • All of the given quotes are just speculation by various writers. (Were old books that also used Roman numerals for their year of publication also trying to trick their readers? Is the US Superbowl trying to trick its viewers with Superbowl "LVII"?) What would be more credible are actual quotes from early producers and studio executives as to why they chose to use Roman numerals rather than Hindu-Arabic numerals. (Maybe no such quotes exist and so the best answer we have is, "We don't know." But certainly the above quotes aren't part of a credible answer.) –  Feb 13 '23 at 06:12
  • @user24096 the author of the "Manual of Film Evalutation" worked as an assistant producer at Emerson Yorke Studio from 1944-1946, so she would have inside information . She is exactly what you are asking for when you write: "What would be more credible are actual quotes from early producers". – DavePhD Feb 13 '23 at 13:49
  • 1944-46 is nowhere near the start of when movies first started being made. Even [Mickey Mouse (1928, MCMXXVIII)](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jX69WSCt5UU/XjJLyXKwwhI/AAAAAAABFZQ/nm3_JltEILEekeMPW2pOQAV1A9PlmeqAgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/%25E2%2580%259CSteamboat%2BWillie%25E2%2580%259D%2BMickey%2BMouse%2BScreen%2BPrint%2Bby%2BJJ%2BHarrison%2Bx%2BMondo%2Bx%2BDisney.jpg) is fairly late in the history of movies. –  Feb 14 '23 at 01:18
  • The earliest movies were from the 1880s and 1890s. A proper investigation of this question would involve looking through all these movies, when copyright years were first displayed, whether they were first displayed in Roman or Hindu-Arabic numerals, having quotes from multiple person who worked in that era about this question, etc. Not quoting from one person who worked for about two years about half a century after the birth of cinema. –  Feb 14 '23 at 01:18
  • @user24096 I see early movies with Arabic numerals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksm-u1LaO6Q and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBCsD7xnNVU but Mickey Mouse has Roman. My answer is just saying that some producers at some point used Roman numbers to conceal the date. I'm not saying that every producer had that reasoning. – DavePhD Feb 14 '23 at 02:25
  • *My answer is just saying that some producers at some point used Roman numbers to conceal the date.* And I'm saying there's zero evidence for this other than the above speculative quotes (probably just repeated off of each other). –  Feb 14 '23 at 03:21