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There is a persistent stereotype that geeks (let's formally define that as people a couple of standard deviations better than average in math, computers or other related abilities) as a whole have relatively poor language/communication skills, especially compared to other smart people with different talents (e.g. lawyery types). I hope this doesn't need "notability" claim :)

  • Is there any research confirming or denying this?

  • Is there a significant difference between "language" skills and "communication" skills in this context?

Nick Stauner
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user5341
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  • Where is your notability claim? – Kenshin Dec 25 '12 at 11:31
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    I think there is a kernel of truth in that stereotype, and, @Chris, stereotypes are like claims: +1 DVK! – Carlo Alterego Dec 25 '12 at 11:50
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    Ok thanks I wasn't aware of that exception, +1 – Kenshin Dec 25 '12 at 11:57
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    I would prefer to see an example claim, if it was at all possible, to remove the vagueness from the question. (Your definition of 'geek' is unusual, and you ask the answerer to define language and communication skills.) – Oddthinking Dec 25 '12 at 13:31
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    (Speculation: If a child is good at words but not at maths, they are encouraged become a lawyer. Good at maths but not at words, they are encouraged to take a technical role. Good at both, they might get encouraged to become a doctor. Good at neither, they might be encouraged to become a manager/insert-your-own-dig-here. This explains the stereotype without a correlation being required.) – Oddthinking Dec 25 '12 at 13:35
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    @Oddthinking there are plenty of example claims, but they are generally similar to "nerds have no social skills", which obviously is untrue in the literal sense. – Sklivvz Dec 25 '12 at 13:52
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    @Sklivvz: There are at least three broad definitions of "geek". [Oxford Dictionaries](http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/geek) suggest: an unfashionable or socially inept person; a knowledgeable and obsessive enthusiast; a carnival performer who performs wild or disgusting acts. Same dictionary has two definitions for nerd: a foolish or contemptible person who lacks social skills or is boringly studious; a single-minded expert in a particular technical field. So, to say geeks or nerds are socially inept is almost a tautology (depending on the definition intended). – Oddthinking Dec 25 '12 at 14:32
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    Which is merely to say the broad claim is too vague. One way (not the only way) to focus it is to find one notable and specific claim, and target that. That's what I was trying to suggest - not that the general stereotype is unheard of. – Oddthinking Dec 25 '12 at 14:34
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    Ok, but restricting it makes it arbitrarily focused. The claim is very broad, but the question needn't be. – Sklivvz Dec 25 '12 at 15:35
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    @Sklivvz - if you think nerds have social skills, you obviously haven't seen me (or any nerd) at a party or trying to get introduced to a member of attracting sex. – user5341 Dec 25 '12 at 20:32
  • @Sklivvz - "geeks" was just added for color. My claim is more about math whizes, who just generally happen to highly correllate with geekiness [citation needed], which is why I provided an exact definition (and why I care not a bit that it dooesn't jive with OED - my definition is more important to the claim than the label "geek" substance wise) – user5341 Dec 25 '12 at 20:34
  • @DVK are you thinking about idiot savants? – Sklivvz Dec 25 '12 at 21:16
  • @Sklivvz - No, that's a totally different story. Most of those likely are high on autism spectrum. Just people who objectively test much better than average (as per my definition, couple standard deviations off) in a STEM field. – user5341 Dec 26 '12 at 01:21
  • Looking at some research, there is another big confounding factor. English is the *lingua franca* of STEM. English-As-A-Second-Language students tend to rate lower in English proficiency tests and are likely to have more difficulty learning technical subjects taught in English. This confounding factor will help make it look like strong English skills correlate to strong technical skills, when tested, unrelated to any innate technical and communication skills. – Oddthinking Dec 26 '12 at 02:46
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    @Oddthinking - I would guess that people who learn STEM in a language not their first is fairly small percentage-wise? Either way, I meant language/communication skills in one's native language, whichever one that is. – user5341 Dec 26 '12 at 02:50
  • @DVK: Sorry for not being clear. Yeah, I figured that is what you meant; that's most sensible. It is just that when I started looking for research, I found a lot of studies that were about how successful ESL students were doing in maths, given limited English skills. We need to ensure any answer accounts for that wrinkle. – Oddthinking Dec 26 '12 at 03:54
  • I think this has something to do with extroversion and introversion. Not only communication skills. – Alfredo Osorio Dec 26 '12 at 15:15
  • @AlfredoOsorio - Shy/introverted people can still have great language/communication skills, just choose not to employ them to talk to other people. – user5341 Dec 26 '12 at 18:31
  • No. It is just that being trained in certain branches of mathematics (statistics especially) involves having the ability to communicate with ordinary mortals surgically removed. :-) – matt_black Dec 27 '12 at 14:03
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    @Oddthinking *"Good at both, they might get encouraged to become a doctor."* Having taught intro physics to a bunch of premeds more than once, I can't say I've been very impressed with their mathematical capacity. And even among diabetologist most have trouble working the arithmetic of insulin pumps without a calculator. – dmckee --- ex-moderator kitten Dec 28 '12 at 00:49
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    No, [Paul Erdős](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s) for example is a famous mathemacian who worked with hundreds of collaborators. – psychoslave Jul 10 '13 at 13:28
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    Anecdotal, but programming magazines have featured writers such as Stan Kelly-Bootle, Jerry Pournelle, and David Gerrold. As a former editor, my feeling is that "geeks" are not poor communicators *at all*: it is the *profession* of programmers and mathematicians to use symbols to state things precisely. The stereotype arises from (a) a value system that cultivates precision and accuracy over ambiguity and agreement; and (b) often less acculturation during the teenage years (when lots of skills are formed). – Larry OBrien Jul 10 '13 at 14:49
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    @LarryOBrien - selection bias :) Of course those writing in magazines would be better than average communicators :) – user5341 Jul 10 '13 at 15:19
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    @DVK True, but I don't find the claimed stereotype true at all. In general, I find technical people skilled in communication: better at constructing and following arguments, more precise in their wording, and more appreciative of nuance. (If the claim were about *social* skills, I'd be more sympathetic to it, especially regarding the value system of precision over agreement.) – Larry OBrien Jul 10 '13 at 16:22
  • Eh. I think it's less about "lower social skills" and more likely "socially ankward when compared to the 90's standards". Geeks have trouble relating to non-geeks because of cultural and taste differences, not exactly because they have lower social skills. Group a bunch of nerds together, and they will surely be a noisy, happy and talkative bunch. Comic Con is one of the best examples I can give. – T. Sar Jun 01 '16 at 14:21
  • IMHO this question is poorly worded. Many famous novelists are also famously anti-social (stated here as having poor communications skills). This question conflates communications skills with social skills and also with word skills. I believe what is REALLY asked is, do people with good number/logic skills tend to have poor social skills. The answer to that is not definite but there are statistical clues. Such as people with good number/logic skills tend to have higher probability of having children in the autistic spectrum (and are themselves within the spectrum) – slebetman Jun 03 '16 at 04:06

2 Answers2

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It depends what you mean by communication skills but at least on the level of testable verbal skills the average physics student far outstrips the average psychology or sociology student.

GRE intended major

Overall there's a positive correlation, if you're good at math you're more rather than less likely to be good with words. If you're good with words you're more rather than less likely to be good with numbers.

https://www.ncsu.edu/chass/philo/GRE%20Scores%20by%20Intended%20Graduate%20Major.htm

Murphy
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  • "The Verbal Reasoning measure of the GRE® revised General Test assesses your ability to analyze and evaluate written material and synthesize information obtained from it, analyze relationships among component parts of sentences and recognize relationships among words and concepts" IMO this has very little to do with human-to-human communication skills. (Anecdotically, I'm on the geek side, math oriented mind; I would probably perform well on that "verbal" test -I love to read literature, poetry, theology, etc- but I perform definitely bad at real human communication) – leonbloy Jun 01 '16 at 20:29
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ADHD is associated with problems in both math and peer-relations according to, among others, a Berkeley news report. If there is a common core component to ADHD, one might speculate that numerical working memory capacity and social working memory overlap to some extent. There is evidence for an overlap between these functions in terms of a non-specific neural correlate for working memory: activity in medial frontoparietal cortex decreases with increased working memory loads (see PNAS 2011).

If a single factor underlies both computation and social skills and if the factor can be extrapolated to the normal-cognitive population, it is possible that social and computational capacities depend on a shared cognitive element. However, further research would be needed to support this hypothesis. If this holds true, one would expect mathematicians with greater working memory capacity to be more social.

Erdős number anyone?

noumenal
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  • Yes, here: 4 =) – Jens Jul 12 '13 at 06:19
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    I'm sorry, but I don't think this is a good answer. There are too many correlation != causation issues going on. The lower math scores are likely a limit in focus during math class making, making learning in general harder not math specifically, and issues with peer-relations a problem with impulsiveness, lowered self esteem, and 'unreliability'. Basically, they could be side effects not direct causes of ADHD, to presume this means correlation is a stretch, much less when expanded to non ADHD. – dsollen Feb 12 '16 at 20:28
  • @dsollen Where did I imply causation? I am merely stating a hypothesis. I agree that attention during maths class is a possible culprit, but the link between maths performance and the ability to hold and update many items in memory simultaneously is a quite robust observation. Impulsiveness is coupled to a lack of behavioral inhibition. Behavioral inhibition is also required in order to direct attention away from distractions. – noumenal Feb 13 '16 at 13:03