5

It has been a couple months I have been working on my yard. Thank you all of your time and advice! My back yard was in bad condition. First I killed wild weeds cleaned and hired someone to trim my trees. I think I had more than 30 yard waste bags :) I live in Kansas city and I am planning on seeding and overseeding my yard. I talked to someone from home depot he that said I should rent one of their overseeder. I am adding some photos here. Do I need to aerate before I start?

enter image description here

enter image description here

Sami
  • 315
  • 2
  • 8
  • These photos from early summer. https://ibb.co/mEGd38 ----- https://ibb.co/iVWZbT – Sami Sep 01 '18 at 19:25
  • By aerate, do you mean to hire/rent some kind of mechanical, motor driven multi bladed device and run it all over the lot, digging up and breaking the top 6 inches or so? – Caius Jard Sep 01 '18 at 19:27
  • Yes, rent the Classen 18" Compact Aerator (CA-18). – Sami Sep 01 '18 at 19:34
  • 1
    @Sami When you do aerate next year the ONLY aerator you should use is core pulling aerator. Leave the cores where they lie. Any other type of aerator will make compaction worse. And precious tree roots are within the top 4 to 6 inches of your soil. You could kill those trees with a multi bladed device digging up the top 6" or so! Also, what do your mortgage documents show about permeability requirements for your lot? This is a big deal to make decisions. You should see a number that they've set you at for your home and walks and driveways and know how much more...gravel is not 100% perm. – stormy Sep 01 '18 at 22:11

3 Answers3

2

I strongly recommend aerating before planting. The looser and less compact your soil is the better chance the seeds you sow will have to germinate. I would also recommend dethatching if there is any evidence of thatch in your lawn. Again, this will I have a complete section on aerating and dethatching on my website, Aerating and Dethatching.

user24091
  • 21
  • 3
1

Your yard looks way better from previous photos! Dang, I have to ask this question; are you set on trying to grow grasses in this very shady area? If you are try to make sure you have shade grass seed, do not aerate until next year, best to have your grass sprayed in by a grass seeding company. They include just the right amount of fertilizer and that green mulch to protect the seeds from washing away and drying out if you forget to water the newly germinating seeds.

This method also inhibits weed seeds from growing while you are allowing your grass to get a foot hold. These companies, unlike pesticide or maintenance companies WANT your lawn to be successful. They might just tell you what I am going to tell you...this is not at all a good situation for a grass crop. Too much shade.

There are alternatives that I'd like you to think about. One is gravel instead of grass. Crushed gravel 3/8 minus installed on landscape fabric with 2X4 edging at least 2 to 4" deep. This is what they do in the parks in Japan where the trees have grown huge and the ground is shaded. Clean, no maintenance, just use a blower or rake to freshen it up. Dove gray crushed gravel.

Installing a series of low decks, paver landings/patio. I am hoping you are taking a picture from your back door? If too far away from the home that amount of investment would never get used. One of the reasons people are encouraged to install hot tubs as close to the home as possible. Firepits make a difference however to draw people out and farther from the home.

Other groundcovers called 'Steppables' (sp)? Low ground covers that don't need mowing, they stay a certain height and they can handle being stepped upon, somewhat.

shade grasses no mow

shade ground covers

This second site suggests Vinca or Periwinkle and I strongly disagree. I've never dealt with a more horribly invasive as heck plant. I've seen landscapes completely blanketed by this plant within one year. Can't believe it isn't on the top ten worst weeds ever, yet! If you can keep it in pots then fine, the larger vinca does best in out door hanging pots, but I strongly suggest that you don't get tempted to plant it in your yard!

Just a few thoughts. Grass needs sun. Grass in shade needs to be cut very very high (3.5" no lower) and very low nitrogen in the fertilizer! Or less fertilizer than grass growing in the sun.

Looks like you did a great job on the soil beneath your fence! Is there soil or plants on the other side that are on your fence? Is that "your" fence or the neighbor's? Excellent grape stake FINE texture for the back of your yard as well as the gray patina. This yard has so many potentials here. What is going on at your home where you are standing?

You should call a grass spray seeding company for a quote and suggestions. Free. They are great for information and wanting to succeed. They have warranties and come back to fix holes and will know your soil and micro environment/climate. If they say they can do this, THEN go for it. Please let me know what they quote you?

Think about making 'rooms' in your landscape. A little mystery goes a long ways. If you are able to see the entirety of your yard from the back door or front door what is to motivate you to go out and experience your own property? Do you have parties or out of doors entertaining? How about irrigation? Automatic or manual?

Get a quote from the seed spraying company and let's talk more, okay? I love your yard and a grass crop might not be a good investment. Truly a lovely back yard! Am I imagining that you sent before pictures of your yard because I kinda have previous memories? Or was that someone else's? Is your entire yard fenced in? I've got ideas on how to NOT make a cat box back yard yet add fencing or 'screens' to define your back yard. airy fence[![Fire pit, garden walls CMU concrete modular units, paver patio...]4

stormy
  • 40,098
  • 3
  • 31
  • 75
  • I bought my house almost one year ago and it was a lot worse than this but mostly with your advice and online searching it is getting better. I think started working on with this yard 3-4 months ago. I still don't know a lot but willing to learn always. I posted a couple posts here and you were the one who always helped. I really appreciate you and your time. Yes, that fence is mine and there is no plant on other side just the soil. I don't have irrigation system yet. I am a student and i am working so I am on budged :) I took these photos from the deck. – Sami Sep 01 '18 at 22:56
  • I already bought scotts dense shade seeds and fertilizer for that bare soil. I also have scotts sun and shade for overseeding. I was thinking sometime this week I can seed with overseeder from home depot then online it says aerate thats why I got confused. – Sami Sep 01 '18 at 22:58
  • Here is the view of back side. https://ibb.co/hYWhaK – Sami Sep 01 '18 at 23:04
  • What is your weather like this time of year? Does this Scotts seed say zero weed seeds in its list of ingredients? Aerate does nothing for a new seed bed. Later. You still have time to make an appointment with a spray seed company. Let us talk about GREAT pertinent information for your site. DIY is fine when people know what they are doing otherwise it is usually a waste of money and effort and is so disappointing. Having a spray seed company come out to your home to give you an estimate is smart and oh so informative. This yard is at its limit to be able to grow a grass crop. – stormy Sep 01 '18 at 23:06
  • 1
    @Sami WHOA! Beautiful yard. Yup I will try to dissuade you from 'overseeding' . This in no way be successful by overseeding. You have to see this is creating a new crop to match your older in the sun crop and will never be successful. So beautiful the differences in 'rooms'! Lucky you. Please ask those spray seeder companies to give you free advice and a quote to include prep and followup. Scott's ain't a great company, unfortunately. They like selling to home owners that know not what they are doing! Shade grass is always going to be borderline healthy in shade seed mixes for shade. – stormy Sep 01 '18 at 23:12
  • Dense shade grass seeds? I would love to hear their list of species of grasses! – stormy Sep 01 '18 at 23:14
  • 1
    Again, gorgeous home, gorgeous back yard with super amenities. Find out where you are on permeability percentage if you have that rule in your Kansas city county. Please ask a seed spray company to give you an estimate and valuable information. You might be very surprised how cost effective this is! My goodness such a wonderful back yard! Grass is NOT at all what I would want under those trees! Unless the spray seed company could give you a thumbs up for success. They would know! – stormy Sep 01 '18 at 23:23
  • Temps have been in the 70s up to 80 these days. I like other ideas but I really would like to see a green backyard as I always imagined :) I will ask a company for an estimate and let's see what they ask&say. --- Dense shade mix 3-1-0 has 19 percent duration tall fescue, 18 percent endeavor II tall fescue 7 percent wendy jean creeping red fescue, 3 percent avalanche kentucky bluegrass and 50 percent water smart. 99.9 percent seed – Sami Sep 01 '18 at 23:39
  • 1
    99 percent grass seed and 1 percent weed seed? Arghhh! Fescue is what I imagined but even fescue needs more sun than what I am seeing under these trees. Please get an estimate! I understand what it is you imagine and that most certainly can happen without growing grass in the shade. Grins, I have dealt with 'the customer knows best' and I managed to get my bosses on my side to allow me to educate clients what is in their best interest. We never lost a customer cause I said, "let's discuss this more in detail first before you spend your money". People loved having someone help them win – stormy Sep 01 '18 at 23:44
  • Would it be a bad idea if I mix sun and shade grass seed with dense shade seed and apply more than recommenced for that bare soil area or it would be waste of money? – Sami Sep 01 '18 at 23:48
  • 1
    Please let us know what you learn!? I only used 'Professional Seed Mix' with zero weed seed. Otherwise, sod was the only way to go. Unfortunately sod needs sun. Sod is never grown in shade for a reason. Your back yard is to kill for for a Landscape Architect! You are so very welcome, Sami. Keep asking questions... – stormy Sep 01 '18 at 23:51
  • 1
    Sami, yes, a waste of money. Just planting seed does not a lawn make! All grasses need sun. I am seeing too little sun even for shade grasses. Grass seed spray companies will be on site and will not accept a contract unless they are assured success. – stormy Sep 01 '18 at 23:53
  • Quick question. Before overseeding do I have to rake the dead grass? I will adjust the height of mower to the lowest and mow before overseeding. Is it the same thing overseeder machine and verticutter? – Sami Sep 03 '18 at 01:56
  • 1
    Yes, rake the dead grass out and 'fruff'...up the surface of the soil 1/4". Ruff and fluff? More seed does not at all ensure better growth, germination, in fact it is detrimental. Use only 'dense shade seed' do not mix the other seed into the mix. Do not add fertilizer until the first mow (usually 11 days in sun probably twice that in shade). Grass in shade should have 1/3 the amount of fertilizer with an equal percentage of major chemicals; N-P-K, that grass in sun needs. Verticutter is worthless and actually damaging. I over seed with a $14.00 hand held rotary seeder/fertilizer. – stormy Sep 03 '18 at 02:39
  • 1
    I added some photos of my yard. Thank you for your help!! Looks a lot better now. – Sami Oct 01 '18 at 05:03
  • Never mow shorter than 3 inches. This is a big deal. How much 'thatch' have you got on the established grass area? Chop with a shovel down 6" into the grass and soil. Pull back to look for a dense collection of grass and roots that sit on top of the soil. If you have 1/2 inch to 1" or more of this material, we need to talk. I do not like 'thatching' as it really is starting over again. But aeration and using thatch-eating bacteria work very well. – stormy Oct 02 '18 at 04:49
  • Yes, I never mow shorter than 3 inches. Mower set to 3.5" I will have to take a look at that how much thatch I have. – Sami Oct 03 '18 at 02:07
1

enter image description hereenter image description here

Thank you @stormy for your help. These two photos are the most recent photos. I seeded two weeks ago.

Thank you again

Sami
  • 315
  • 2
  • 8
  • Heck you have to know I am impressed! Your newly seeded area is amazingly lush. I think you've raised your deck a bit but a half inch to a whole inch higher, allowing your grass to be only as short as 3", never shorter...would dazzle you with the difference. How often are you watering now that your newbie grasses are being mowed? Remember about not watering unless you see your footprints stay down on your grass when you walk on it? This enhances the drought tolerance of your grass, kills baby weeds because they have tiny and short root systems, shades out the weeds and the grasses... – stormy Oct 01 '18 at 06:52
  • ...become vigorous, dark green and are better out competing weeds. I am worried about why your established lawn is thinning? Your new grasses (what type of seed did you end up using)? look very healthy, maybe there is more sun than I thought getting through to your shaded meadow. Have you ever considered landscape lighting? – stormy Oct 01 '18 at 06:56
  • Do you have your own septic system or are you on city sewer? I hope you have an office in your home so you can USE this wonderful yard all day. Let me know if you want design ideas down the road...okay? – stormy Oct 01 '18 at 07:04
  • I used Scots dense shade and mixed a little with sun and shade seeds. I watered twice a day first two weeks and now I water every other day. I overseed entire yard sun and shade but on existing grass I didn't see any improvement. There are some spots I saw soft and green and I believe it is moss maybe that's why it didn't grow much. I didn't raise anything, I tried to level the ground. I haven't considered landscape lighting. City sewer. I study in my kitchen or deck sometimes and love it :) Thank you!!!! – Sami Oct 01 '18 at 15:57
  • 1
    Stay in touch, Sami! – stormy Oct 03 '18 at 00:31
  • I learned a lot in this website and on google in 4 months! Thank you! – Sami Oct 03 '18 at 02:08
  • 1
    Oh I gotta add one more thing. Fertilizer, please try Dr. Earth's Lawn Fertilizer. Costs a bit more but worth it. Thatch eating bacteria included. I hate promoting any product but gee, this might make a huge difference in your lawn. Rarely fertilize the shady grass, perhaps half what you do for the established grass that gets lots of sun. I am glad you learned a lot...that is the main purpose. Makes me happy...grins! – stormy Oct 03 '18 at 05:49