6

I live in Montreal Québec and have planted bell peppers in a new raised bed. All was well for two weeks and then the leaves started to cup, develop holes and now are now starting to have black marks on them.

I have looked for bugs under the leaves but have found nothing. We have been getting a lot of rain.

Any idea what might be causing this?

enter image description here enter image description here enter image description here enter image description here

Edit :added another photo

Edit: More images, garden shot and eggplants enter image description here enter image description here

Edit 3: Week or so later, after applying some controlled release fertilize, posting this as an imgur album as the photos were to large for direct posting. I think they are looking a lot better, which makes me hope that the issue is not a virus, rather just an amateur gardener not giving the plants what they need. Also got a pepper growing, and a few flowers. https://i.stack.imgur.com/UZMQJ.jpg

Stephen Fritz
  • 163
  • 1
  • 6
  • what soil is in the raised bed and is the bed open at the bottom? If not, how deep is it? – Bamboo Jun 29 '17 at 13:03
  • Bed goes right to the ground. Should I have left a gap between the ground and the wood? The soil is a mix of bagged soil I got from a garden center which was recommended for vegetables and soil from the garden. It is more on the clay side in texture. Bed is a foot tall and I dig down another foot under the bed and loosened the soil. Not quite double dug but somewhat deep – Stephen Fritz Jun 29 '17 at 15:17
  • What was the name of the bagged soil you used, I'd like to look it up, and have you used any fertilizer of any sort prior to planting or since? Is that area quite shady, where they're planted? – Bamboo Jun 29 '17 at 16:16
  • 1
    Another question that needs answering, Stephen is, are you or friends or family smokers? There are other vectors as well such as aphids and other sucking/chewing insects that spread this disease. Could very well have happened before you purchased your starts. If indeed these were starts from the store. Or did you grow from seed? – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 18:22

4 Answers4

5

No you didn't need to leave a gap between the wood and the soil, and there's clearly drainage because its open at the bottom and you dug that soil over.

I'm hesitant about what's wrong, there are so many things that can affect bell peppers (see list of possible problems here http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/GARDEN/VEGES/peppers.html). Something has been eating the leaves, which is not the major issue, but not sure what's causing the black markings, and the upper leaves appear puckered or bubbled, slightly deformed and somewhat yellow, so I'm wondering about a viral infection. I hope it isn't, but if it is, there's no treatment. The other possibility is oedema, if you've had lots of rain and the plant's taken too much up, that will cause some puckering too, but usually with bumps beneath the leaves. Thrips infestation can also cause puckering, but not yellowing, though that could be accounted for by low nitrogen availability - I'm not really being much use, am I, because I'm unable to isolate the cause, sorry. The list of possible problems in the link above might be useful - if you click on any one, it takes you to another page with information about that problem.

UPDATE; to include information in comments. Yes, you can transmit tobacco mosaic virus to peppers and tomatoes if you handle them after smoking, see here http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/gardens-gardening/your-garden/help-for-the-home-gardener/advice-tips-resources/pests-and-problems/diseases/viruses/tobacco-mosaic-virus.aspx. That does not mean that's what's happened though, most viruses present in the same manner, with torsion of the leaves and yellowing in mosaic or band patterns, which I'm not seeing yet on yours, the yellowing is more generalised. Time will tell if it's a virus.

Bamboo
  • 131,823
  • 3
  • 72
  • 162
  • My first thought was virus as well. Very very possible Bamboo. I didn't mention virus because you handled that very well. What is interesting is the stark difference between new growth and old growth. Could this be mosaic from tobacco? – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 17:23
  • 1
    http://www.tobaccocigardealer.com/tobacco-mosaic-virus-structure/ You know, when Stephen gets back with answers to our questions, we'll have to find out if he smokes or has smoker friends or could've been done at the nursery. I think virus would diagnose this just fine...mosaic virus. – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 17:59
  • I do smoke, generally on my deck which is about 10 feet from the garden. Never throwing butts into the garden but I have for sure smoked around it. I read the page you linked but its not clear to me how it would transmit. Would smoking and then handling the plants potentially transmit it? – Stephen Fritz Jun 29 '17 at 18:15
  • 1
    Yes, I'm afraid it would, in theory, in particular in a greenhouse. There's a link about it, but I'll post it later, my internet's playing up... But it doesn't have to be tobacco mosaic virus, could be any sort of virus, they generally all present with yellowing, often in mosaic or banded patterns (which I'm not seeing yet on yours) and torsion of the leaves. Time will tell if its viral or not...http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/gardens-gardening/your-garden/help-for-the-home-gardener/advice-tips-resources/pests-and-problems/diseases/viruses/tobacco-mosaic-virus.aspx. – Bamboo Jun 29 '17 at 18:21
  • 1
    Yes, handling plants susceptible to mosaic virus is almost a sure thing. Washing hands and then using latex gloves would be helpful as this virus as well as others is very tough. Still would love to hear what you've added for fertilizer and whether or not that soil had fertilizer incorporated. Do you know if your peppers were a variety resistant to this virus? I am seeing...that puffiness between the veins as well as the veins themselves are yellow, twisting, all indicative of virus, especially mosaic, tobacco virus. My internet is going in and out as well!! Still need to know about fert! – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 21:39
  • HI @Bamboo thank you for all the information. After everything, i'm leaning towards it being a virus, but am going to try improving the plants nutrients and such before giving up. If the symptoms further develop i'll let you know. – Stephen Fritz Jun 30 '17 at 03:21
  • @StephenFritz - just been having a closer look, had to clean the screen on my device to make sure, but I can see tiny white or greenish white things on the leaves, really tiny. In particular the leaf at the bottom of the picture (the last photo), towards the stem end, a couple of obvious white things which might be eggs or insects. Magnifying glass and close inspection is called for.... – Bamboo Jun 30 '17 at 15:50
  • @bamboo you mean the picture of the egg plant? Last photo showing two eggplants and some lettuce? I will have to look when I get home – Stephen Fritz Jun 30 '17 at 16:08
  • @StephenFritz Oh sorry, no, I mean the third picture from the top which shows the pepper plants, forgot you'd added other pics since. I had to magnify the photo on my device in order to see them – Bamboo Jun 30 '17 at 16:25
  • I see what you mean I will investigate tonight – Stephen Fritz Jun 30 '17 at 19:31
  • Got home rather late, will have to look tomorrow. – Stephen Fritz Jul 01 '17 at 02:38
5

The twisted and deformed new leaves tell me this is calcium deficiency. Sometimes just too wet of soil and/or cold soil will cause this. Then there is the yellowing of the young leaves that could mean iron, zinc or manganese deficiency. The 'rosetting' of the top leaves where the internodes are serverely shortened is definitive of lack of zinc.

These nutrients or chemicals could be present in the soil but have just been made unavailable by temperature, moisture, an overabundance of one or more chemicals and most certainly pH. So don't apply anything until we have a better idea what is in that soil.

I am lost with the statement 'should I have left a gap between the wood and soil'. You did well by digging the soil up beneath but is there a wood bottom? Just would like that clarified. Also need to know have you used any fertilizer at all? If so really need to know the list of macronutrients as well and micronutrients if any. Do you still have the bag the soil came in?

What causes problems some bagged soils have added fertilizers. They need to be accounted for before adding any other fertilizer. Were these peppers planted as starts from the store? The older leaves look a little too green (too much nitrogen) and the streaks indicate phosporous deficiency. It is hard to tell in photographs. Those leaves would be the leaves that came with the plant when you purchased them from the nursery/store.

Then there is the non decomposed bark chip mulch. As we speak decomposers are furiously working to decompose that wood. Decomposers use lots of nitrogen as an energy source depleting nitrogen availability to the plants.

Please get back to us with more details, Stephen. Try to get a pH test of your soil, via at least 2 methods that agree. If it has been raining a lot has it also been cool temperatures? What are the temperatures at night? Is the only wood the sides or is there a bottom? Raised beds are great for drainage and helping soils warm, unless there is a bottom. Find those bags and list of ingredients to pass that information on to us. Sorry this isn't a definitive answer as yet. Oh, and did you use your garden soil with the bagged soil? Or is this all bagged 'soil' that sits on the garden soil?

This is a multidimensional and interesting problem, Stephen! We'll be back with more information soon. Please send us more details, asap...thanks!

stormy
  • 40,098
  • 3
  • 31
  • 75
  • Hi Stormy. Here are the answers I have off hand, others I will get tonight. There is no bottom to the bed. PH was 6.5 with the test I did last week. Plant came from nursery and were maybe 4 inches tall . Soil is mixed between bags and what was in the garden, I turned the soil after pouring the bags in the garden. For the temps, name of soil bag / is composition and other questions I will be able to answer when I get home – Stephen Fritz Jun 29 '17 at 18:00
  • In the past two weeks we have had anout 1.5 inches of rain, almost every day we have gotten a bit. The temps have ranged from 51F -> 78F Records for my area can be found at http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate_data/daily_data_e.html?StationID=48374 – Stephen Fritz Jun 29 '17 at 18:18
  • @StephenFritz Thanks for the fast reply. We'll wait for the rest when you get home. Unless something weird is happening with fertilizer, this could very well be tobacco mosaic virus. Major bummer. If you are not a smoker then there is a possibility the nursery is at fault here. Are all your plants looking like this? Are they all peppers? Good job with the raised bed and I have to ask; is this wood pressure treated? I couldn't tell in the photograph. Certainly not a worry for this question at all...just need to know the fertilizer and access to tobacco smoke...off fingers as well. – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 19:06
  • I am a smoker. Would have handled plants after smoking, so there is the possibility there. Wood is pressure treated (https://www.renodepot.com/en/treated-wood-2-x-10-x-16-84895039) not much information on that site. I will dig out the bags when I get home. Other plants are doing okay. There is Romaine lettuce which is looking pretty good, some egg plant whose leaves have a lot of small holes but looks otherwise healthy and is flowering. – Stephen Fritz Jun 29 '17 at 20:09
  • 1
    Arghhh! My internet is going in and out and this is the third time to comment. Wash hands in very hot water then use latex gloves. Virus is very tough, even doing this might not help. Try to not touch your egg plant. Get ready to pull out your peppers. The big bummer is you won't be able to put any of the solanaceae family in that soil for two years, at least. – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 21:50
  • 1
    Really need to hear what you've done for fertilizer. Small chance this might be nutrient deficiency or excess. Hope so. Not to worry. You can get cheapo black plastic pots to plant peppers in and they will do very well. That size start use no larger than a one gallon pot. – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 21:52
  • I will be able to tell you what was in the soil I used soon. Any chance this might just be that the plants have become water logged? The soil is very damp all the way to the surface. Digging down it remains damp. When we had nicer weather the first couple inches of soil would get a more Sandy texture – Stephen Fritz Jun 29 '17 at 21:55
  • Grins, no smoking on this side of the house and certainly down wind. Wash your hands like mad and use latex gloves. My feeling is Tobacco Mosaic Virus. Hey I used to smoke and quit because of this issue, well and other issues. The fact you are a smoker handling these plants kinda shoots this right up to the top of the list. I loved smoking, sigh. But I love my solanaceae crops even more!! Like Bamboo said, this could be a whole nuther virus but if that is what this is it is in that soil for a long while. Keep an eye on your eggplant. More info with fertilizer!! – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 21:58
  • Too wet of soil will definitely exacerbate anything that is going wrong. This is either nutrient deficiency or excess or both OR and I am leaning this way, virus. I plant tomatoes and peppers in pots in potting soil. I can move them in and out of my artificial grow house with heat and there is no worry about what is in the soil. You've got room to have potted vegetables! – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 22:02
  • Very true! Lots of space. The garden extends a ways past what you seen in the photo. I will circle back when I have more information. Also if it ends up being the virus, I guess that's one more reason to quit smoking! – Stephen Fritz Jun 29 '17 at 22:04
  • ha ha ha!! It isn't hard unless you are one of those people actually addicted to nicotine. Damn, I sure miss smoking...sigh. But this virus well, all virus is tough. I would gravel that other area and the rest of the exposed soil. You will have lots of room and I've grown the BEST peppers ever in 4 to 6" nursery back pots. I had a string of dried peppers that was 3' long and 6" wide off 8, 4 -6" pots. Tomatoes...get upgraded into at least 5 gallon, best is 10 gallon pots. Always potting soil! Tomato cages work well. That tobacco virus is virulent! – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 22:10
  • I would also consider using a tarp of clear plastic with pole supports when it starts raining like that. Gee, sounds like a mini green house! Grins! A mini polytunnel you could remove during ideal conditions and replace with tie downs for rain, too cool temps at night. It would enlarge your growing season! I am worried about the drainage. Possibly lift the bottom of those boards up using rocks. That bed should have better drainage. See how your garden soil has dried out? Get rid of the bark mulch. That is like offering condominiums to all kinds of insects. – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 22:16
  • Hi @stormy the soil I used was fafard 3/1 vegetable planting mix. http://www.fafard.ca/en/produit/31_organic_planting_mix/. The photo of the whole garden from my post. I'll add one showing it as it is now, all the soil is very damp as the rain hasn't let go much lately. – Stephen Fritz Jun 29 '17 at 22:51
  • Are you saying you haven't added any other fertilizers? – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 22:52
  • That is correct. Well a very diluted amount of miracle grow early on but that was the day after planting. First time doing this was unsure what to add. – Stephen Fritz Jun 29 '17 at 22:54
  • Hummm. Need to think about this. We'll let this go for awhile to see what happens. Why don't you water with another dilute miracle gro solution...wait. Bag that, too wet. Get some good old reliable 14-14-14...it is extended release and you just can't make mistakes. Only use it once maybe twice a year. See what that does. I gotta feeling you've got virus in your peppers. I would try getting more peppers to plant in pots. Are you buying from a nursery? Ask them if they sell those black pots (used) and then bleach and clean before using them. By the time you've done we'll have ID'ed. – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 23:03
  • Alrighty, I will try the 14-14-14, this is my first time trying to grow anything more complex than cherry tomatos. We just moved into the house, so seemed fitting to start growing some delicious veggies. Any specific reason to get the pots from the greenhouse rather than just buying new ones (just a cost savings or some deeper reason)? – Stephen Fritz Jun 29 '17 at 23:11
  • also @stormy , I have been googling / checking local stores online, and am not finding a 14 14 14. Many others, but oddly can't seem to find this one. Will hit up the nurseries on the weekend but was wondering if there is an alternative to it. For example, I am finding plenty of 12-12-12, controller release. – Stephen Fritz Jun 29 '17 at 23:33
  • That should work just fine. Osmocote is made by Scott's or Ortho...the only product I ever use by these companies. Controlled release, 12-12-12 is just fine. Follow directions. – stormy Jun 30 '17 at 03:17
  • Oh gosh, go ahead and get brand new ones. I am just sort of in a rut? Grins!! – stormy Jun 30 '17 at 03:18
  • Put down some 12-12-12 controller release. Going to see about getting couple pepper in pots this weekend, far away from any smoking! Thanks again for everything. I suppose time will tell if its a virus. What should I be on the lookout for to make that determination? – Stephen Fritz Jul 01 '17 at 02:36
  • Keep an eye on your egg plant. If your pepper plants improve, then it was just nutrient deficiency. Just so you know, I am pretty sure this is virus...I can always be wrong thank goodness. Please send pictures in one week, OK? – stormy Jul 01 '17 at 03:20
  • New photos posted in an imgur album linked in post, I think it looks better but would like your thoughts. Less black on the leaves, getting some flowers and a pepper, plants have grow and look "greener". Thanks! – Stephen Fritz Jul 08 '17 at 21:10
  • Well what a relief!! I think it was just nutrient/chemistry out of wack! They look vastly better...yay!! Keep sending pictures...if you want I love to see results...how else does one figure out the real problems? This is a major difference!! heh heh heh...guess now you don't have to quit cigs right now? Hey slow down to 2 cigs a day and then get pissed and just stop. No buying anymore cigs. Between 2 and 5 cigs per day is negligible to health...if you have to change your entire daily routine then it is best just to completely quit. Gotta say, you are able to smell/taste really well! – stormy Jul 08 '17 at 22:25
  • 1
    @stormy, I think you've got a point about the cold and wetness being factors here with the leaf deformations. I'm not sure that is the exact issue, per se, but I have noticed that the time of year definitely seems to affect stuff like this, as well as maybe how I water. Last year, early on, my peppers were like this, and they were fine later on. Some of them are like this now, but I think they're recovering. Some plants did show zinc deficiency signs, interestingly, and I did give them some zinc last year (they had plenty of calcium from the beginning, though, I believe—via basalt rockdust). – Brōtsyorfuzthrāx Jul 09 '17 at 01:54
  • 1
    The dark portions of the leaves could be sunscald, although if so, it doesn't always look like this in peppers. I have some peppers like that this year (but none were like that last year). – Brōtsyorfuzthrāx Jul 09 '17 at 02:02
  • 1
    It could be a virus, though, but I don't know. – Brōtsyorfuzthrāx Jul 09 '17 at 02:15
  • 1
    I am getting to know 'too cold evenings' and the effect it has on plants even though the days are 90 degrees. I think I am one of the 'bare minimum' people with fertilizer. Yet I have to constantly defend fertilizer. I have to tell you Stephen, these pictures are showing healthy plants! I think that this is not a virus and was just a deficiency...in such a short time! Stay in touch... – stormy Jul 09 '17 at 06:23
  • Just for the record, my peppers this year (most of my varieties looked a lot like that) appear to have recovered, again, this year. I only gave the container peppers zinc, epsom salt and stuff, though, but they're all looking better (except Black Mayan, which died, probably because the soil got too dry and sunny, but it wasn't one of the ones that looked like that particularly, nor was it in a container). I also suspect spider mites may have something to do with it. – Brōtsyorfuzthrāx Jul 23 '17 at 05:58
  • @StephenFritz Your plants look healthy now. Those purple streaks will not go away on the older growth but those leaves are still working. Don't worry about insects. A few will never be a problem. Did I read somewhere that your soil is still soggy? Stop watering. If it rains throw some row cloth over your bed have we discussed row cloth? It allows rain through but not as much and allows air and sun. When it stops raining take the row cloth off. I would also put some sticks into the soil to support the row cloth so it doesn't get too heavy when your plants are larger. Don't add any... – stormy Jul 23 '17 at 20:43
  • ...more fertilizer as your soil had fertilizer included albeit minimal. Your plants look fine. I'd get rid of the chunky bark and as you do that you can scrape off the baby weeds. Is your soil still soggy? Hummmm that is not a good thing. The few insects you have are not a big deal at all. We've got lots of questions and answers about row cloth. Cheap and definitely any gardener's necessary tool! Also protects plants from too cool nights and frosts. Windy days and later when you experiment with other plants protects from insects laying eggs where the hatched larvae causes big problems – stormy Jul 23 '17 at 20:47
  • Hi @stormy, The plants are doing better. One pepper, many flowers. Thinking I will get rid of the bark at the end of the season, and next year I am going to rebuild the bed to be half as deep, same height and width, essentially split it into two beds because I build this to deep to reach into the middle easily. When I do that I am going to mix some nice manure and compose into the soil, hopefully to not repeat these issues. Walking around my area, I see people who have what looks like row cloth/mesh on a wooden frame with a hing, and I am thinking of doing that, but welcome any advice / info – Stephen Fritz Jul 23 '17 at 21:20
  • For the bugs, well, I have come to realize that my area (Montreal) has a large number of Japanese beetles, in fact when I went to trim the Virginia Creeper which covers a lot of the trellis on my deck, small swarms of them would fly up. Researching those, they seem like quite a pest, and would explain the damage to not only these vegetables, but my sunflowers, roses and other plants. We just bought this house, so are not familiar with the local pests and issues (Like the skunks which dig up the front lawn in the spring!) Thank you for the help and advice so far – Stephen Fritz Jul 23 '17 at 21:23
  • Send a picture Stephen of these beetles. We've had quite a number of questions/answers lately about these guys. Sounds like your beetles love other plants more than your little vegey garden and that is a good thing. Skunks digging up the lawn, probably helping you top dress your lawn. They are almost like badgers, a bit dangerous to mess with... – stormy Jul 23 '17 at 21:26
4

Possibly the use of CCA-Treated wood (aka Copper-Chromium-Arsenic pressure-treated lumber) might be the source of such an issue. I say that because of the green color of your wooden pot.

From this resource:

Low concentrations of arsenic, chromium, and copper occur naturally in water, soil, plants, and the human body[...]. Intake of excessive amounts, however, can have adverse effects on plants and humans.

[...]

Several studies have clearly shown that As, Cr, and Cu can leach from (be removed from) CCA-treated lumber when it comes in contact with water, soil, and/or compost. The amounts of these elements that are leached from the wood depend on several factors.

Increasing factors:

  • if the whole pot is completely soaked with water that never drains
  • acidic soil
  • organic matter

    Loss of CCA metals is increased when CCA-treated wood is in contact with certain materials, such as silage or compost, that are high in organic matter and have an abundance of organic acids. Such organic acids are formed during production of silage and compost. Because organic matter strongly binds CCA metals, little of what is released into these materials can be taken up by plants.

J. Chomel
  • 3,729
  • 3
  • 15
  • 35
  • 1
    Highly unlikely, frankly...http://extension.psu.edu/plants/crops/esi/treated-lumber – Bamboo Jun 29 '17 at 14:57
  • @bamboo, That's same ref. as mine. Could be if the whole pot is in contact with water and never drained. – J. Chomel Jun 29 '17 at 15:04
  • It is a raised bed which is built out of pressure treated wood. I will see if I can find more information about it. The soil in the bed has been wet for the first inch for almost two weeks due to the weather here. I was thinking the roots may be waterlogged – Stephen Fritz Jun 29 '17 at 15:14
  • @J.Chomel sorry, only followed the Wiki link you provided - but CCA timber was changed from 2003, so I wouldn't have thought arsenic and the like would be a problem – Bamboo Jun 29 '17 at 15:26
  • @bamboo, I realize this is unlikely, from the new pictures posted: a lot of earth for very little treated wood. And the dates too indicates my source is old. – J. Chomel Jun 29 '17 at 15:37
  • @J.Chomel I was on another site talking about this very same issue. I am from the camp where PT wood is a big no no to use in gardens. I am not convinced about the safety of this NEW pressure treated wood, no siree. For one thing I've seen this new stuff literally dissolve non powder coated hardware within one year. This might be a fun question for later! Also, his wood doesn't look pressure treated. Hard to tell from the pictures. Did he say it was PT anywhere that I've missed? – stormy Jun 29 '17 at 17:20
1

This looks like a lack of available calcium to the plant (with some sunscald that is probably on leaves that grew before the transplant, not being used to the full sun; northern regions can get a lot of sun).

I'm guessing, if this isn't a virus or pest causing the symptoms, that your soil has too much available potassium in it, which can interfere with calcium and magnesium absorption. Potassium is supposed to be more available when it's cool, which could explain why my plants with similar symptoms recover when it gets consistently hotter.

Wood chips are high in both calcium and potassium, but I know from experience that adding large amounts of both calcium and potassium seems to contribute to blossom end rot in Martino's Roma tomatoes. So, I'm guessing potassium wins when there are large amounts of both nutrients.

Adding extra nitrogen might help, if it wouldn't be too much for your soil. I believe nitrogen can inhibit potassium and vice versa. I believe I've also heard or read that calcium and nitrogen need to be in balance.

I also have experience giving tomatoes and peppers with too much potassium extra magnesium to treat apparent magnesium deficiency (but it didn't do much; I'm guessing the extra potassium stopped the plant from using it).

Calcium, potassium and silica are all important for strengthening plants. If a plant is deficient in calcium, it may be more susceptible to insect damage.

Magnesium is more available when it's cool than when it's hot (so, that might explain why you don't see obvious magnesium deficiency symptoms). Plus, it probably takes quite a bit of heat before you'd notice it, anyway.

Anyway, I could be wrong. Stormy's answer is very helpful, I think.

Brōtsyorfuzthrāx
  • 17,794
  • 4
  • 27
  • 65
  • 1
    I think you are right about it not being a pest, home soil test kit showed very low level across the board with a pH of 6.5. after fertilizing the soil the plants perked up,and the new growth looks nice .at this point they have lots of flowers and 4 peppers. For insects I have a rather large problem with Japanese beetles, which I was aware of when I made my initial post and I think they have been contributing to the issues. – Stephen Fritz Jul 27 '17 at 00:13
  • 1
    I had added a balanced slow release fertilizer and then a week later have them a half strength watering of 20-20-20, and now a few weeks later they seem to be doing well. Might have also helped that it stopped raining every day, although our weather has not been great still. Thanks for your post, it has some interesting information and it is always nice to hear about other people's experiences. This is my first year trying out growing vegetables, in a new house at that! So quite a learning experience – Stephen Fritz Jul 27 '17 at 00:17