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I've heard a lot about planting trees together, and was wondering if Kiwiberry will guild well with John/Adams elderberry.

black thumb
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  • Latin names, plase. – Stephie Jul 02 '16 at 21:18
  • not available from the catalog. – black thumb Jul 02 '16 at 21:33
  • what do you mean by the term 'guild'? Also note that kiwiberry is not a tree.... – Bamboo Jul 02 '16 at 22:23
  • guilds are putting plants together so they make each other stronger to strengthen their weaknesses. – black thumb Jul 03 '16 at 00:36
  • can you cite your source for this particular meaning of guild in this horticultural context please? Or are you saying its a meaning you've created yourself? Question's irrelevant anyway - elderberry (Sambucus) is a tree, kiwiberry is a climbing vine. – Bamboo Jul 03 '16 at 00:52
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    Permaculture guilds are probably what he's thinking about http://www.neverendingfood.org/b-what-is-permaculture/permaculture-guilds/ – Graham Chiu Jul 03 '16 at 03:43
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    @Bamboo You might call elderberries trees, because they get as tall as trees, but unlike most trees, they constantly shoot up new trunks or canes, like a currant bush does. I've always heard them called bushes. – Brōtsyorfuzthrāx Jul 03 '16 at 04:23
  • @Bamboo I'm getting a johns and adams elderberry partners, and they will be colonizing away from each other with kiwis hanging down from them. – black thumb Jul 03 '16 at 05:22
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    @Shule - that rather depends whether Black Thumb is referring to Sambucus nigra or Sambucus canadensis , because he hadn't specified - S.nigra is a small tree about 20 feet, S. canadensis is rather more shrubby and about half that height. If the question had been clearer, there'd have been no need for all these comments/questions. I wouldn't describe S. canadensis as a tree - its more or a shrub, yet 'tree' is in the question... which is likely why Stephie asked for the Latin names in the first place. – Bamboo Jul 03 '16 at 10:26

2 Answers2

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Sambucus canadiensis (or S. nigra subsp. canadiensis)1 is not suited as "support" or "trellis" for anything with significant weight, especially not for vines - and kiwiberry is thick and strong enough to support hanging bridges...

If I harvest elderflowers or berries, I use a walking stick or similar to gently pull down higher branches. Young shots are very flexible. Old wood, on the other hand, is quite brittle and breaks easily.

So no, this is absolutely no feasible plan.

1 I presume that's what we are talking about according to our previous discussions...

Stephie
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Elderberry is a large bush, and kiwi berry is a rapidly growing vine that can climb 100 feet up a tree. Physically they don't sound like a good pair. And furthermore you'll need a pair of both.

Kiwifruit is normally grown horizontally on trellises to make picking the fruit easier as it's quite labor intensive even without it climbing up a tree.

Graham Chiu
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  • you can form it into a tree, just like cherries that you mow down after establishment become a bush. – black thumb Jul 03 '16 at 04:22
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    And it's going to support a vine that grows 100 foot long, allowing the kiwi sufficient sun without collapsing under the weight? – Graham Chiu Jul 03 '16 at 04:28
  • @GrahamChiu, no idea why this was downvoted, you are spot on. Elder is a bush, not a tree. – Stephie Jul 03 '16 at 08:54
  • @Stephie - Sambucus nigra is a tree - Sambucus canadensis, which seems to be what Black Thumb is talking about now he's added the Johns and Adams bit, isn't... a clear question is worth its weight in gold... and it wasn't me who downvoted, I'm about to give a point in fact – Bamboo Jul 03 '16 at 11:22
  • @Bamboo my sources said "shrub" for both, which makes sense for me and matches my observation, especially with the discussion whether S. canadiensis is a subspecies of S. nigra or not. And for the record, I upvoted, too. ;-) – Stephie Jul 03 '16 at 15:21