What are strategies to identify restaurants where you will learn as much as possible?

Question

How do I identify restaurants that offer excellent training/education? I considered looking at the number of chefs that learned at a certain restaurant and afterwards achieved a Michelin star or won prices etc. However, I could not find any database for this kind of information. Does such a database exist? If yes, would it be a good approach? I don't know many people in the culinary world who could recommend a suitable restaurant to me. As an alternative, is there some kind of forum with this kind of expertise? Maybe the chat of this site? Or is there a ranking of restaurants with regard to their educational quality? If it matters, I am interested in restaurants in Europe, especially in Germany.

TLDR: What are strategies to identify restaurants where you will learn as much as possible?

Edit Based on the advice from the comments some additional information: I don't have experience as a chef until now and my goal is to learn as much as possible within two or three years. I don't necessarily need a formal degree, but ideally I would also obtain one.

Where are you starting from? Any cookery college will have avenues to the real world for its graduates. If you're trying to start without any formal training, you will be washing pots for quite some time before anyone will let you near a stove. — Tetsujin, Jun 06 '21 at 08:48
@Tetsujin Thanks for your question :) I don't have experience as a chef until now, so basically I would start at the very beginning. My goal is to learn as much as possible in the next two or three years. I think that in Germany (however, I am also interested in the possibilities in other European countries) the usual way is not to go to a classical culinary school but kind of a dual system (Lehre) where you are alternating between time in the restaurant and time in school. But I don't necessarily aim for a formal degree, my main goal is to learn as much as possible as fast as possible. — simplemind, Jun 06 '21 at 09:05
You ought to add that information to your question. One thing is for sure, without formal training of any kind, your employment opportunities will be limited to 'whoever will take you on'… & that will not include Michelin star kitchens unless they encompass training specifically. You can't even get into something as open as Jamie Oliver's Ministry of Food without formal introduction from a participating college. — Tetsujin, Jun 06 '21 at 09:11
@Tetsujin I think that the dual system in Germany is such that even exceptional restaurants train beginners (the pay during this time is very low) and they are even obligated to really train them (they have to pass practical tests). So (at least in theory) they cannot only let you wash dishes but have to actually teach you. Clearly many restaurants won't do this properly, so part of my question is how I can identify those who do really educate beginners. — simplemind, Jun 06 '21 at 09:13
@Johannes_B I am not completely sure what that means. Does it mean that there is no way to increase the probability to identify a restaurant that offers good training in advance and it's only about luck? If yes, why is this the case? — simplemind, Jun 06 '21 at 11:08
Europe is too wide an area. Do you have an EU or other Schengen citizenship? If not, forget to get work anywhere in the EU/Schengen countries. Best add the country of your citizenship. — Willeke, Jun 06 '21 at 11:34
@Willeke My focus is on restaurants in Germany. I edited the question accordingly. I have an EU citizenship. — simplemind, Jun 06 '21 at 11:40
What i meant is ... Well, you cannot know in advance. The kitchen is a place to learn, but always as a team, but with *one* leader. If the leader decides to use Maggi-Pulver all over the place, there isn't much to learn. — Johannes_B, Jun 06 '21 at 13:17
Since you seem to speak German -> https://youtu.be/ie30Pi2Q2to — Johannes_B, Jun 06 '21 at 13:18
personally, even after clarification, I think your emphasis is wrong. You learn most about actual cooking technique & kitchen management at college. You see how that applies to the real work using their resources & connections to real restaurants. You seem to want to do this the wrong way round, in the mistaken belief that it will somehow be "quicker". It won't, it will be slower & have no qualification at the end. — Tetsujin, Jun 06 '21 at 17:14
@Tetsujin Thanks, I will look into it and consider the way with culinary schools. To be honest, I was not even aware that these exist in Germany (apart from "Berufsschulen"). Are you sure that your advice also applies to the situation in Germany where there is a dual system? Do you have an example of such a culinary school in Germany? Maybe you could also have a look at my comment to the answer below concerning this dual system? Thanks for your advice :) — simplemind, Jun 06 '21 at 17:24
I have absolutely no idea how Germany differs from anywhere else, even within the EU. This distinction is really not covered by your question nor the purview of this site. You need to do your own research. — Tetsujin, Jun 06 '21 at 17:25
SA is a bad place to ask this question. Try asking on eGullet, which has an audience of professional chefs and will have more useful advice. — FuzzyChef, Jun 06 '21 at 18:52
@FuzzyChef Thanks :) I was not aware of that site, I will look into it. — simplemind, Jun 06 '21 at 22:31

score 5 · Accepted Answer · answered Jun 07 '21 at 17:59

5

There is a forum: eGullet, which is an online message board for culinary professionals.

Try their Culinary Classifieds for staging advertisements, and Restaurant Life to ask about advice on how to find a good stage.

answered Jun 07 '21 at 17:59

FuzzyChef

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score 4 · Answer 2 · answered Jun 06 '21 at 11:55

There are probably lists of restaurants that accept interns, but those will be in the hand of culinary schools.

Those restaurants will have agreements with the culinary schools that covers the curriculum and maybe costs associated with the internship.

If you go with the culinary school way, you will already be "trained" in some way, you will have a base education where you will be useful in some ways to the restaurant; the risks to the restaurants are minimal. Depending on the laws (germany?) you might be paid or not.

If you go the "independent" way, without any basic education or training, you might/will be hired as a dishwasher or a kitchen runner or busboy; as an employee, you will/should be paid.

It will be your responsibility to learn by watching, by asking questions and eventually by asking the chef/owner for increased responsibility in the restaurant, this is a medium/long term endeavour.

You will probably try the restaurant dish at your home (or at the restaurant in your own time if the owner is cool with that)

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You need to identify what kind of restaurant or cooking you want to work for, either high end restaurants (for example michelin star), less formal bistro/diner or even small catering companies or even a large hotel kitchen.

Go through the list of restaurants in your area, look at the menus/website, get a peek inside the restaurant (seating area), see if it looks like a place people enjoy, or a place you'd like to work for.

If you see a place that you'd like to apply, call the restaurant and see if they would have an opening for a person like you; keep it clear and open about your goals.

Good luck.

Thanks, +1 :) Particularly the second part is very helpful. Regarding the first part of the answer, I am not completely sure that it takes into account the dual system in Germany. For many professions the usual path is to make a "Lehre" where you alternate between working at an (independent) business and between school ("Berufsschule"). This is not limited to chefs but the usual path for many professions. I think it is quite normal even for high end restaurants to accept such applicants ("Auszubildende"). They are then obligated to properly train them, but the pay is very low. — simplemind, Jun 06 '21 at 12:54

What are strategies to identify restaurants where you will learn as much as possible?

2 Answers2